From luminary this is therapy versus the world I’m your host Joe ncci and together with the help of our very special guests we are going to arm ourselves with mental health knowledge so you can tackle the emotionally difficult topics in your life we will break down popular psychology terms and
Concepts like narcissism trauma self-esteem relationships and more hopefully you will leave each episode knowing yourself and others just a little bit better today we are talking to carth Foster carth is an author speaker comedian and founder of adversity Solutions a revolutionary way to address diversity inclusion and belonging welcome carth
I’m very excited to talk to you thank you so much for having me what a trait I’ve known kth for a while now and I know that your story there are so many ways that your story and what you’re about applies to mental health it’s impossible to introduce in a
Introduction but before you tell your story I’m wondering if you have an idea of what are like like what’s the elevator pitch like what are like the two or three things that you hope people take away from the work you were doing well number one I hope people take
Away the fact that we we have more in common than we don’t and all of the things that we have been led to believe are uh have Merit because it distinguishes us from one another that they’re they’re surface things and the reality is we are human beings having a human
Experience um certainly at different times and through different lenses but we we’re in this together and we certainly have more in common than we don’t yeah and it’s more relevant now more than ever although I feel like every time you and I talk every year different things happen and just
Continues to feel more important and more relevant for the people who are listening who are not familiar with your story I would love you and feel free to take your time and just talk about who you are how you came to do this work and how it all kind of ties together and
I’ll definitely jump in as I have questions and thoughts too sure so I I love that this is a conversation around mental health because I I’ll be honest I think this really started with my own personal struggle growing up in an environment that wasn’t very diverse and leaving me feeling like I
Was caught between two worlds you know as a a black person growing up in a predominantly white space um it wasn’t that I had racial issues per se but like anybody you want to fit in especially during adolescence you’re like well what is what’s missing like why don’t I feel
Like I’m part of something you know I I was told that I wasn’t black Enough by some of my black counterparts uh even teased about it you know by family members and but I wasn’t white either so it’s like where do I belong you know but
You talk wa okay what you know I I I struggled with severe asthma and allergies as a a kid into my adolescence so I was on a lot of prazone which is a horrible steroid if you ever had to deal with it um and it makes you gain a lot
Of weight it makes you incredibly emotional um so that was added stress so you know growing up with this who am I as everyone I think deals with but then you know thinking well I I I I don’t belong in any world I’m an outcast I’m
An outsider that was part of my path but I thought you know what maybe I can bring people together maybe there’s a way and I always thought media was going to be that way so I went to school college to study broadcast journalism that I was going to be the next Katie KK
Connie Chung Oprah Winfrey totally dating myself here um because I wanted to be this Beacon of light and truth and that’s what I got my degree in I went to a very small women’s college in Columbia Missouri I studied abroad at Oxford uh came back got my degree and I moved to
New York City to work for the view and the view was I would say it was kind of my devil wor Prada and there’s a famous line from that movie a million girls would kill for this job why are you miserable and that was me and I was
Miserable because I I wasn’t having the opportunity to express my creativity and I wanted to be on the air and so there were things that I saw behind the scenes which I’m very grateful for that experience I mean I learned how to write and produce and book and to this day I’m
Still friends with 75% of the people I started that show with um because you know who who wouldn’t want to work for Boba Walters um and so that’s why I took it uh but not realizing what I was necessarily getting myself into and the more I saw behind the veil of media and
What’s allowed if you will um you know you get to tell a version of the truth and so while I was there uh at the view I found standup comedy or rather it found me and that was a a Twist that no one saw coming especially my parents who
Were like what we paid for how much a private school in Oxford like really um but I loved it and I I think one of the things I love most about stand up was that and I still believe this to this day we’re the Island of Misfit Toys it
Doesn’t matter who you are how big you are how little you are what your ethnicity is what your gender is you just have to be funny that’s that’s the Only Rule and requirement um but then you know you have to pay bills so my mother once said
Please get health insurance so I said fine I started temping at Este Lauder their corporate headquarters in New York City and I was there for just under a decade and there were times when I’m like why God am I here this is not me I’m not a
9-to-5 but now I know why I was there because so much of the work that I do applies to Corporate America and I work very closely with human resource people so I know their world I know their challenges I understand what they’re going through what they’re trying to
Accomplish and just as I was leaving EST Lauder to start a production company I got a call in September 2007 saying hey carth you interested in a radio TV opportunity I’m like uh yeah of course by the way it’s when Don Imus now to refresh anyone’s memory or
Enlighten anyone who never heard that name Don Imus was like the original shock jock he was the before Howard Stern and he got in trouble in 2007 for calling the Ruckers Women’s Basketball team Nappy Headed hose and I remember watching it live on TV and thinking oh
That was a bad move and I saw it from multiple angles I saw it from the purview of a comedian trying to riff trying to be funny off the cuff and it not being funny or Landing well and I saw it from a black woman’s perspective
Like you did not just go there and say that but I remember thinking this is an opportunity to marry all of my worlds right to have that broadcasting career to be able to use humor and to be the speakon of light and truth and that was my Tale of Two Cities
The best of times worst of times um dream job working for basically Satan because he was an addict who never sought recovery so we never knew who we were going to get on a daily basis and it was traumatizing and I did have PTSD from it
Um not an exaggeration not as bad as some of the other people who’d work with him I met one woman who for 20 years couldn’t work because she was so traumatized from the abuse um but I decided that was not going to be me but what that opportunity did do and I’m
Still very grateful for it was it opened my eyes to what was going on in the world of diversity and inclusion and Dei and it made me think you know why after decades and decades and millions of billions of dollars spent on efforts in the name of diversity why does it feel
Like two steps forward 10 steps back and that’s what started me on the path with um iniversity it was initially called stereotyped 101 and another Catalyst for starting something and starting my entree into the college and university Arena was the death of a young man uh Tyler Clemente uh he took
He was a ruer student coincidentally and he took his life by jumping off the George Washington Bridge and I remember hearing that story and just being heartbroken that anybody should feel that alone for whatever it is they thought set them apart from everybody else and and I thought what can I do how
Can I help and that was initially the start of what I called stereotype Ty 101 that evolved into University there’s so much I want to reply to but before I do can you tell those who are listening what exactly invers Solutions is sure so invers Solutions is the name of my company
Invers is a concept it’s a methodology it’s a way of taking the division out of diversity because think about it the word diversity I I love to play with words as an author as a speaker and a comedian um the first three letters of diversity is DV right what other letters words
Start with that divide division divorce and we’re shocked that diversity isn’t bringing everyone together yeah it’s literally right in front of us so I thought okay let me see if I can flip the script literally and figuratively and I created invers and the idea is not to sweep anything about
Diversity under the frog it’s still you know we have to acknowledge that there are things and issues that exist in the world but what if we instead of focusing on all the things that separate and divide US expand the definition of diversity to include diversity of thought and ideas
And also make it a a point to understand that like if we have more in common why don’t we focus on that why don’t we shift the focus to what it is we have in common how we can be truly inclusive of one another but most importantly and I
Believe powerfully how can we be introspective meaning understanding your value and worth so you can see it in someone else and I think that’s where a lot of the traditional Dei has gotten things wrong because it’s been messaging like trying to penetrate the the the
From the outside in and so much of this work nothing’s going to change unless we ourselves change how we come to the table and certain conversations how we treat other people but it has to start with how we treat ourselves and I think that’s really been lost until now
There’s so much I want to there’s so much I want to reply to so let’s just take it from the top I was taking some notes here so you talk about growing up growing up not being black enough not being white enough wanting to fit in which is of course an
Anxiety that adolescents go through at that age and it’s something that lasts with throughout our lifetime you know I don’t know anyone who doesn’t like fitting in often I notice I don’t know if you see this but if I ever get to know someone who’s kind of you know
Contrarian doesn’t like to fit in they kind of have their little like groups of other contrarians and other kind of you know they’re all kind of banding together um and for me it really brings up this idea of what is identity identity is not something that’s completely objectively defined you
Identify as something but it’s also not something that’s completely subjectively defined either and here’s how you know if you and I are walking down the street and someone calls out uh I’m going to I’m going to come after you you nword or you cracker or whatever it is if it’s
The former I may stop and I may be like oh my God who is saying that but I’m not going to have a moment of that person might be talking to me mhm you know just like with the latter you won’t you I mean you may you you’ll still have an emotional response
And I like this example because I think it highlights how identity and the politics of identity are often negotiated it’s not completely objective it’s not completely subjective either in your example I you felt like yourself and people were trying to negotiate what that was with you and it sounds like
That was very very hard particularly when you don’t fit an easy mold you know it’s easier to categorize someone it takes less cognitive thinking I mean as far as I’m not sure exactly what the question was there but you’re 100% right you know when you are struggling with an
Identity and you have a subsect of people that are trying to put an identity on you that that’s really where the conflict was for me you know I was just like well I’m just I’m just carth right right I I I am black I never wanted to
Be anything but I never had any desire to change my ethnicity you know I may have wanted blue contacts every now and then but I always wanted my skin you know um you know identity is it is subjective and it is so personal and it it it’s it’s malleable right because you
Can identify as oh I’m I identify as a Democrat I identify as a republican I identify as this like this is the where I feel my allegiance to something and that can become part of your identity um I think it’s when we select an identity that we’re I
Mean willing to die on that Hill for it because that’s all we are and that’s who we are and if other people can’t see it and accept it like it’s so personal why why does anybody else have to buy into your identity right I and I I say that coming
From a place of self-love not from a place of judgment toward anyone else because I had to I had to go there how dare anyone else try to put something on me when it’s my life and how I feel about myself so I had to grow
Up a little bit I had to take personal responsibility for how much power I was going to give to anyone outside of myself family lovers friends just the people out there in society because that was an energy drain on me and it took a lot of my energy and
It robbed me of a lot of joy and confidence yeah for me it brings up this idea of self respect is often Upstream of self-esteem and self-love because sometimes it can be I I imine maybe it’s better to ask it as a question I imagine at times it was difficult to have that
Selflove particularly when you have those external forces kind of um influencing you or trying to influence you it took decades yeah it took decades and you know since we’re talking about this and on this topic you know I I had a breakdown I spent part of my 16th year
A month in an adolescent psychiatric facility because the struggle was so real yeah who am I definitely would you would you mind sharing a little bit about that it’s a very vulnerable disclosure but it’s also a very it is not an uncommon experience absolutely so I I me yeah I I don’t talk
About it a lot um I do mention it in my book but one of the things that I I always want people to know and understand is that there is no shame in getting help yeah and seeking help especially if you think you’re you know might be at the end of your rope
Um I’m very grateful for that experience because not to say that my problems weren’t significant and what I was dealing with wasn’t heavy on me on my heart in my life but when I got there you know I had quite the Awakening to what other people’s lives were like yeah
I was the only person who didn’t go to to AA meetings I was one of the only people who didn’t go to CD meetings chemical dependency I didn’t go to SA meetings sexual assault like I realized how very fortunate and I’m like wait I’m I’m I’m upset cuz like I’m overweight
And people tease me and I just I’m struggling with who I like what and again not to demean what pain that cost internally in the struggle but when you have the opportunity to put things in perspective like that yeah it’s life altering it’s life altering and that was
Honestly that was where things pivoted for me when I did make the decision of you know what I’ll be damned if I let anybody else tell me how I’m supposed to feel about myself or who I’m supposed to be now I wish I could say that was the
End of that identity struggle for other people because I did go into entertainment I did go into comedy um I started in New York which I’m very grateful that that I did cuz I probably would have been terrified to start comedy somewhere else and then go to the
Big apple right like ignorance is bliss fair enough um but I didn’t fit the mold there either you know I wasn’t the sassy black girl who rolled her neck and talk about baby daddies and getting The Stereotype you know I wasn’t The Stereotype so for a long time people
Just they didn’t know what to do I wasn’t the cute blonde kind of dirty girl they didn’t know what to do with me they literally didn’t know what to do with me cuz you know always looking for the next Chris Rock the next Amy Schumer
The next you know and I I didn’t fit any of those like I was my own person and I lost a lot of gigs because of that but I also refused to play a character that I didn’t want to the experience of seeing what other people were going through ended up being an
Empowering one for you yes a different a different person might be listening to this and maybe they’ve gone to impatient as an adolescent maybe they haven’t and they could see how other people have gone through you know quote unquote worse experiences and yet they’re still being impacted the same for you it was
An empowering moment an epiphany for others that might actually compound their shame what might you say as someone that’s been through that experience what might you say to that person it’s a Choice it’s a choice and I know that sounds oh so simple I I’m not saying that it’s easy and it happens
Overnight but right you have to you have to have almost like a pro and cons list for yourself you know what are the benefits and I I teach this when I I coach Executives when I work with groups and organizations you know what are the long-term benefits of holding on
To this what are the short-term benefits of holding on to this and you make that list what are the long-term benefits of letting this go yeah what are the short-term benefits of letting this go and sometimes the benefits they’re not necessarily positive like the benefit can be well I
Get to be the victim I get to blame someone else I get to always say this is why things don’t work out for me so it’s not my fault I talk about victimhood a lot in my content and one of the things I keep coming back to is this idea of what’s
Worse than being depressed or having some sort of mental disability or whatever it is it’s dealing with that and dealing with victimhood Consciousness it it it makes it worse MH you know no matter how you slice it you talk about not being not fitting a certain mold and how previously it
Held you back you lost gigs people didn’t know how to categorize you I want to talk about that a little bit and the way I want to explain it is what I call the The Dilemma of the bisexual in a bar so if you’re man or woman let’s say you’re
Bisexual and you’re in a gay bar does it is is it serving you in a meaningful way or how might it serve you a meaningful way to clarify that you are also like the outgroup like a heterosexual in a different way when the other gay men meet you in
The gay bar and then they hear that you kind of they they can’t put you in a box just like those people couldn’t put you in a box what I’ve observed is that people there can be hate there can be stereotyping but I think there’s also
Just a genuine anxiety of how do I categorize you I don’t have enough mental space to figure out what to place you are you are you going to hit on me are you going to be my friend are you my competition like what’s happening I I don’t understand similarly you take the
Bisexual you put them in a straight bar or her or them put them in a straight bar and they’re clarifying to everyone that theyby say well would you just introduce this interesting context again are you hitting on me are you my wingman are you my friend are you my competition
It’s it takes more thinking is my point it takes more cognitive energy yes and I think that you could apply that to other issues and nuances of identity outside of sexuality whether it’s gender or race or whatever it might be people can’t categorize they don’t have a
Simple schema they don’t know how to sort you and that takes more thinking and if they don’t have the energy or they don’t have the um education or awareness or experience I think it can be disorienting with them and that’s where I think communication and connection and opportunity breaks down
I’m wondering a what you think about the dilemma and B how you might better understand your experience of dealing with identity I think you just described why the internet is a [ __ ] show of vitriol and people getting mad at one another because they’re not even taking the time they don’t have the mental
Capacity to to see a broader picture than what has been you know kind of set up in their own in their own brains um I you know I I think that my experience you know I I used to lament being the social butterfly in high school you know when I because I
Didn’t have a click I hung out with the cheerleaders in the jocks I hung out with the you know the the the theater and debate teams I was I was all over and I used to think it was my curse now I realize it was my blessing yeah and I think that that’s
Really how people have to if they want to find joy in their existence they have to find Their Blessings yeah um and you know for those who aren’t religious in any way like I I find your your gifts your talents your your special sauce your unicorn dust you
Know and I think that you know we we try so hard to belong like belonging is so it’s such a part of human nature I mean it’s number three on Ma’s hierarchy of needs it’s why people join gangs it’s why people join synagogues and mosques and churches it’s why people join
Fraternities and sororities it’s why people join hate groups cuz they want to belong I mean that desire to belong is so strong people do some things that do not always serve them yeah and I think if we can keep that in mind when we are looking to try to belar
Belong to a certain group like what about belonging to yourself like nobody ever talks about that do you belong to you or do you belong to what society’s put on you yeah it goes back to the self- Lov comment earlier I alluded to self-love self-esteem self-respect you
Know you I mean you can slice love and try to destruct it deconstruct it in a number of different ways but what I really like about your question do you belong to yourself is it something like where did you plant your flag in the sand and are you okay with where you
Planted are you going to stand by that decision you know this is who I am and it it could be be an issue of identity or it could be something I’m a I’m a gym rat I’m a foodie I I love TV no I prefer movies you know it doesn’t necessarily
Have to be super dramatic no and intense it’s all about are you going to a make a choice but B do you have enough respect in yourself and in the choice to where if someone else made a different one that it doesn’t necessarily unravel you and I don’t even
Know if it’s respect as much as is confidence right and and those two things can go hand in hand for sure yeah but you know respect confidence boundaries all of these things that that edify us right who we are so that we’re okay with us I mean I know people in their
50s and 60s and 70s who still aren’t comfortable now it does help getting older without question yeah you you realize you know you know what I’m not going to give my energy to that anymore to that conversation to I’m not going to entertain people who think this way or want to you
Know make me feel a certain way or try to make me feel because first of all they have no power to make me feel anyway that’s all in me that ownership you know I talk about that in my book you can be perfect or you can be happy
Owning the fact that no one else has the power to make you happy that is that is a blow to many people’s systems because we we’ve been brought up to think well you know know if I meet the right person I’ll be happy right if I have the right
Job I’ll be happy if I you know have these kids I’ll be happy if I get this degree or have this title or live in this neighborhood right happiness really genuinely has to come within I know it sounds so cheesy yeah but it’s so true it’s just so true and when you realize
That you know happiness is a choice but it’s also not a constant that’s that’s when you can get over that Hill you know I I the analogy often uses that you know a heartbeat monitor we’ve all seen the EKGs where it goes up and down up and down when you
Got the highs enjoy the heck out of them right and then when you got the lows know that those are temporary the only time just like in life the only time you were ever in trouble is when you got that straight line yeah but we’ve been trained to
Believe that if you’re not happy all the time something’s wrong with you nonsense yeah nonsense right that’s life it’s just life and it’s okay you know is I’ve had the U privilege I guess you could call it of providing Psychotherapy to people all along the socioeconomic Continuum
When I was in school it was a predominantly Medicaid case load a very high pain Private Practice clients now and everyone in between and something that I’ve noticed across the socioeconomic Continuum but I think it’s easier to see the significance of it if you’re on the wealthier end is if you have that
Straight line if you’re plateauing for too long even if you’re plateauing from a really like good place like a high place on the chart people will do something to make it go lower just to make it interesting I mean they really will you know and I’m not and I don’t think that
That’s that’s not bad or that’s disordered I I think that’s life you don’t necessarily want it to be monotonous the whole time you want a story yes you know you want an adventure 100% it’s we’re not supposed to be like everything’s not supposed to be predictable you know how do you how
Do you know what feels good if you don’t know what bad feels like totally I mean brne Brown really popularized this notion and I think it’s been one of her gifts in terms of media presence is you don’t get the good stuff if you let in the bad
Stuff it’s it’s it’s kind of like well kind of like falling in love you know you don’t actually get to access those intense feelings of of passion and closeness and comfort and belonging and and all of that without risking you know feeling misunderstood you know maybe they prioritize their feelings over
Yours one time and that hurts it goes It goes hand in hand have I ever told you the uh the porcupine metaphor no please this is uh maybe my favorite distinction I I learned in school and it was the first book they they made us read in my
Master’s program so it was all downhill from there I’m just kidding but the idea is that the porcupine is the perfect metaphor for human intimacy so porcupines travel in their little I think they’re called troops I’m not actually sure what a porcupine is called
You can let you can let us know in the comments if you’re seeing this clip somebody knows um but let’s say it’s troops and so the porcupines they they travel in their little troops and storms come in life and storms always come in life it’s inevitable that’s the up and
Down of the EKG like you talked about and so the porcupines they’ll they’ll huddle not just for warmth but for for protection and closeness and safety and the closer they get the more likely they are to accidentally poke each other with their quills and so that’s the Dilemma
Of human intimacy you don’t actually get the closeness and the warmth if you don’t risk getting hurt sometimes and people I I see it all over social media I’ve um I talk about it when I facilitate therapy I’ve heard it from my own therapist what’s important is not
That you never get hurt it’s that but can you repair yeah can you make up in the aftermath it seems like we’ve lost that sometimes in culture particularly around topics of identity we’ve certainly lost resilience because I think you know we’ve become accustomed to telling people that they’re
Fragile and I think that happens a lot in colleges and universities there’s a book called The codling of the American mind and actually the movie is about to be released and I was not in the movie but I did get to contribute to the book
And in it you know yes we of course talked about the rise of social media and those aspects but there is also the element of you know when did we stop telling people they were resilient when did we stop you know championing victimhood and letting people think that
You know what they they won’t be able to recover because that’s that’s not true yeah it’s simply not true um I do have to say when you told that porcupine story all I can think of was it is a miracle that we ever get baby porcupines totally considering what they
Have to do to make it happen like forget a thunderstorm yeah that’s you putting it’s vulnerable right and life is vulnerable and I learned that doing comedy I’ll be I’ll be honest I I really learned that during comedy because stand up comedy love it or hate it it is the
Most vulnerable art form that exists because it’s all you all you on that stage unless you have a comedy partner but that rarely happens it’s your words your thoughts your ideas your face your body your voice for complete acceptance or complete rejection yeah and that’s also why it’s
A bit addictive I think and it’s why some people do uses therapy and it’s why some people you know try it once and like never again but it’s also why some people can’t get out of their system yeah because the high that you get from
Stand up I I’ve not been a drug user but I can’t imagine a greater Hive than having an entire room of people laugh at something you think is funny too yeah it just fills your soul and laughter is cathartic and it’s healing and you know physiologically there are things that
Happen when we laugh which is why you know one of the Motts that I use is you know if you can laugh at it you can get through it yeah and a lot of Comedy comes from Pain you know there’s the equation of tragedy plus time equals
Comedy yes and that’s not to say that it’s about poking fun of horrible things that have happened but think about the people who are like some of the most famous comedians right they’re Jewish people they’re black people they’re people who’ve had like trauma mhm in their communities for a long
Time and that’s how we that’s how we heal that’s how we that’s how we we we move forward so we don’t stay stuck in the pain so carth there’s I’m guessing that there’s someone listening to this assuming they haven’t just turned it off out of sheer repulsion turned us off
What someone is thinking yeah it’s a nice thought but the system but it’s too hard whatever it is there are there are people that feel that way I see them in the comment section I meet them in life as as you said it almost feels on
The rise in some ways um what would you say to that person the person that that maybe just isn’t buying what you’re selling for all all the reasons you know I would let them know they’re completely entitled to feel that way and I’m not here to force anything on anyone I me I
That doesn’t work that’s not how you win friends and influence people when I would like to remind people yeah regardless of your level of spirituality again your religious affiliation if you even have a religion mhm the fact that you exist is a miracle yeah and I speak
This as someone who knows how hard it can be to get [Laughter] pregnant and scientifically biologically the fact that you exist yeah is nothing short of miraculous and I believe that that means that you have a purpose now you may not know what that purpose is right now you may be
Struggling and I get it I’ve been there God knows I’ve been there but know that if you can start just with grasping the concept that you’re here for a reason that you exist for a reason that your presence you’re hearing this you’re being able to breathe and walk
And move and function and you know if you have that ability means that you know anything is possible like that’s the world that I live in and I didn’t always live in that world yeah I didn’t and I I’m not saying that’s where I live all the time either like I’m not marry
Freaking Poppins like everything’s wonderful I don’t have little birds land on my cup of tea like you know what I mean like it’s real life so I have to remind myself right sometimes I have to read my own book to be motivated sometimes I have to get it from a
Podcast I have to hear a comedian talk I have to you know but the fact that you exist to experience life Joy loss pain fatigue hope like that is so powerful yeah and as long as you’re here that that’s a gift yeah and I know it doesn’t
Always seem like that I know it doesn’t but it is it really is because this is it this is a life we’ve got and and I know there are people that have suffered there are people who have had trauma there are people that have been abused there people that are probably going
Through abuse right now and I you know all I can say is you know don’t give up on yourself right there really there is light at the end of the tunnel and the if the if you exist it means you can do something to change it m yeah and I
Think that’s where a lot of people think well this is just my life they’ve resigned themselves this is just you know I am what happened to me no you’re not one of the chapters is my of my book is you know ask why this is happening for me
Versus to me right and just that little ju supposition of those two prepositions why is something happening for me why did I go through that awful period oh so yeah I can be like you know what I got through that that didn’t take me out yeah they tried it tried but I’m still
Here yeah for me it also brings up looking at someone from the outside you see the record deal the podcast launch the wedding day you don’t see the thousands of rejected auditions you don’t see the hours of work I put into Contex and you know before getting a
Podcast you don’t necessarily see all the horrible maybe even abusive and traumatic relationships and dates before the marriage particularly in our you know social media soundbite Instagram worlds everyone thinks that everybody else is ju just perfect and it’s such an unfair standard to impose on other people you know it it dehumanizes them
It disempowers you you know it shks responsibility from you and it erases the fact that these things take time you said your journey to self Lov like it took years oh decades is it fair to say that if you could have spoken to yourself then that you would have said
It’s going to get so much better it’s going to take a long time but it’s worth the way it’s worth the baby steps I always say you know they say what would you say to your 18-year-old self or you know 20-year-old self I say to stop first of all stop
Worrying you’re going to be okay um but that yeah it it does get better it absolutely gets better and that doesn’t mean you don’t have the the lows and the heartaches and the totally the the crappy scenarios that you do you do but you you choose you choose if
You’re going to let it take you out or if you’re going to let it make you stronger and that’s that’s what I think a lot of people don’t recognize or understand that you do have a choice you do you do regardless of what you’ve been told what anybody has tried
To you know put on you you have a choice am I going to believe what they said about me or am I going to believe what I know is my truth yeah that goes back to what you said earlier speaking of which I want to double click on something you said
Earlier you said that a lot of the current conversations and structures and ways of thinking about diversity inclusivity belonging it’s this outside in messaging can you tell me exactly what you meant by that well I meant that you know a lot of the trainings that people do especially like on unconscious
Bias you know it’s so like you know look at look what other people’s lives are like look at how privileged you are look at how you treat other people it’s very externally focused right yeah instead of saying how do you treat self what do you what do you wake up in
The morning look in the mirror and say to you most of us say pretty horrible things yeah and then we’re expected to be kind and loving to other people we can’t even be kind and loving to ourselves yeah so how in the world do they think that type of programming is going to
Have a lasting effect right from what I’ve experienced from that programming and I had that education in undergrad in graduate school there was a lot of focus on diversity in counseling which is super important but the outside in it made me think of this idea of loky of control
Are you familiar with this in Psychology it’s it’s this idea of where do you assign the control is it internal is it more internal or is it more external and what they have found no surprise is that if it leans external if you assign more control to
Things outside of you you are more likely to be depressed more likely to be anxious and this got brought up in school and I always thought it was so interesting because people would would critique this finding and they would say well that’s a very um that’s a very like
Western and individualistic finding and I always remember thinking and because because I actually have friends and classmates in graduate school who came from you know more collectivist societies non-western societies like I’m thinking of a a classmate of mine who came from Asia and they said oh like learning about these Concepts was pretty
Great they were like it’s actually very very empowering and so but that’s it’s it’s a it’s a little bit of a tangent I I I just know that when it comes to some of these issues I love what you’re adding because for one thing if you’re not going to if you don’t feel
Like you can make a change or make your own circumstances better it’s going to be really really hard to improve your mental health now at the same time we need to be cautious of an extreme stance on that for example people who think that they can do anything even though
The evidence is otherwise we might call that a delusion of grandiosity you mean like all the self-made whatevers which is a complete utter fabrication nobody’s self-made anything you have to have other people yeah yes I was just I had a great interview um had a great interview with my friend Jimmy
Um we talked about mental health and high achievement and performance and he has had such this humble leadership style and if you haven’t heard the episode please go and and check it out it’s it was really really great talking to him because he’s he’s so there’s some
Just so Earnest about the way he goes about it he goes I need so much help to do what I’ve done you know and how great to hear and that’s you know I think that’s another thing that we forget and that’s actually one of the chapters of
The book ask for help there is no weakness in that and yet we’ve somehow grown up thinking well if I ask for help then I’m not going to look like I have it all together or I’m going to show I’m incompetent or nobody does anything just by themselves schools don’t run on their
Own companies don’t why do you think people put Help Wanted signs up yeah and companies why do you think people look for cap capital Venture uh but uh I’m blinking I’m actually not sure where you’re going with it oh no CVS I just you know Capital Ventures that’s what I
Was trying to say because people need money people need help and and there are people who want to invest in a business but they don’t want to start one yeah we need each other um we need to know that it is okay to ask for help and in fact
Not only is it not a sign of weakness it’s actually a sign of courage and bravery and it’s really a sign that you’re interested in improving something it’s all of that and more though it’s not just that if you don’t ask for help you may not get to where you want to go
It’s arguably a really really selfish stance and I’ll tell you what I mean I’m in a helping profession I love being of service to others and even people who aren’t therapists or doctors or nurses typically feel good I I would say I I do not think it’s an exaggeration to say
The vast majority of people feel good if they can feel helpful or needed or or when someone comes to you for advice or with a problem um who said it someone articulated that’s an expression of trust yes it’s selfish to rob that of the people in your life who would want to help
You just like it’s obnoxious to not take a compliment people don’t think about it that way right they think oh I’m being humble no you’re basically telling the other person when you deflect that you think their opinion is Kaka yeah and that’s not okay like accepting a
Compliment I had to learn that it took me years and I teach people how to do it it’s so funny when we do exercises sometimes with grown grown grown people grown folks as I say yeah and people cannot be comfortable just receiving a compliment yeah it’s something that I’ve
Struggled with both the reaching out for help and the receiving compliments and I I want to talk for just a minute about one of of the ways I work through that something I talk a lot about in my content but also on my podcasts is you one way to really amplify your therapy
And the benefit of therapy is to understand the processes of sensitization and desensitization receiving the compliment receiving that love feeling attractive or whatever it is if for whatever reason you’re not accustomed to that and it it may be your fault it may not be it is your responsibility to learn how to receive
Them and learn how to ask for help when it first happens it may be really overwhelming to your nervous system oh without that question you know without qu and I’m not I’m not casting blame on anyone and I’m not saying shame on you but I’m saying it’s something we have to
Learn to do yeah because you’re receiving a gift which you take a birthday present from somebody and open it and throw it on the ground right in front of their face yeah why would you do that with their words that were there to give you something to build you up to
You and for those who are listening if that happens the next time you accept a compliment it is therapeutic and transformative and healing to actually say I’m sorry I’m working on that thank you you know it’s it’s really uncomfortable I’m actually going to feeling panicky I’m going to
Leave now but but thank you you know like you can be a little messy with it you know it’s okay you can life is messy you can be messy but guess what practice makes habit not perfect but habit and the more you can just say thank you and
Smile and receive it the more comfortable you will be and the more compliments you can receive and give out and that’s a form of love that’s a form of self- Lov that we’ve been talking about MH absolutely we have to wrap up in a few minutes before we
Talk about where to find you and how to follow up with you is there anything else you want to say or discuss or any questions or just as we kind of wrap up what’s been a lovely conversation I know I’ve enjoyed myself oh you are such a
Darling I I mean we could talk for hours as we do when we get on the phone just talking um you know quite honestly I just if I can leave the audience with one message is that again you you are amazing yeah just your mere existence it
It’s so special even when it does doesn’t feel like it um I’m here to tell you that yeah thank you thank you for sharing your story we talked about so many good things today how can people follow up with you how can they learn more about
Invers so my name I’m very fortunate is not very common there not too many carrots out there so I have my personal website kith.com and I have my uh invers website which is invers solutions.com I NV RS t y solutions.com and I take this this loving programming to organizations um colleges universities I
Mean I’m I I take it wherever they will have me because I think it’s really important that we have a very different conversation around diversity and inclusion one that is truly inclusive and one that is empowering and one that really does bring people together so they feel excited and engaged and
Inspired um carth Foster is my handle for LinkedIn for Instagram Twitter all that good stuff and if you’re on Facebook still I know your audience may not be be like okay dinosaur even I see see my content to Facebook that people using it very good all right well well thank
You again we’ll have to have you on there’s so many other things that we can talk about for those of you who are listening uh please like And subscribe on YouTube and Spotify that’s the easiest way to support this show and remember therapy versus The World episodes are available early and adree
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