We will welcome uh our folks who are watching us on streaming on folks watching us later this is the last of our afternoon events for day two of the racism in the World Church conference um it is a great pleasure now to follow up this uh keynote from Ralph Douglas West
And uh have a conversation a public conversation between Dr West and my friend and colleague Dr Stephanie body um when the idea of having a conversation about the black church came uh Dr body was the first person that I thought of and I think of her often this
Is the third conference where she has played an integral role and um I look for every opportunity to collaborate with her a great scholar a brilliant singer and uh a thoughtful and genuinely kind person who I enjoy being around and uh I will seize every excuse to do that
So um Stephanie thank you so much for uh leading this conversation this afternoon and Ralph we look forward to hearing more about you your life your work thank you so much well thank you so much for this opportunity to have this conversation with you um Dr Wes and
Maybe I I saw in your bio that you go by pass so is is that would that be an appropriate uh way to uh That’s The Only Name They Know Me by That’s The Only Name They really know me by very seriously okay because I really
Appreciated when I saw your bio at the end you say although past can boast of a number of degrees honors and associations those who sit under him preaching with most apply described his attitude using Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians 2:1 when I came to you Brothers I did not come with
Eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God for I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified I came to you in weakness and fear and with much trembling my message and my preaching were not with
Wise and persuasive words but with a demonstration of the spirit’s power so that your faith might not rest on men’s wisdom but on God’s power yes and I really appreciate seeing that in your bio and experiencing you today that you were really able to help us to understand the
Black church through the lens of the scripture and bringing in your own story so I wanted to start out our conversation because you’re talking about the love of the black church and its connection to this one address that remained unchanged really spoke to me as someone who studies the black church and recognizes
That in many of our africanamerican communities when we think about the institutions that are there what I found in research is that there’s in in many cities there’s a black church every 08 miles or so yeah so you can find them on almost every you can find a church on
Almost every corner in many black communities and so I wanted you to just unpack a little bit more for us about the kind of stability that the black Church offers the community when we do think about the changes in the economics the social and the political climates that we face yeah
That that’s a great question um when I speak of stability I mean just that it becomes Bedrock for a Comm Community uh regardless of its size Unfortunately today with the rise of what people call the mega church of much larger churches we almost put uh the church the black church in the rearview
Mirror and I’m often make the comment our congregation that any church in any neighborhood on any Street Corner does enough good work that it could make the front page of any newspaper or now any social media if people paid attention to it because of the work that the people do in those
Communities um the media focuses in on multi-million dollar athletes who once a year go to a store and buy presents and they say oh they spent $110,000 and always Overlook even those black churches that have a benevolence fund no no church is under the obligation to have a benevolence to help
People pay a light bill and yet the church when it’s struggling with its own Financial stewardship has the audacity to extend itself to people who do never never pay this back to help them get along so so so when you think about the economic stability of the church again
When people criticize because the pastor on the lead leader drives a Buick and they they’re driving whatever it becomes an issue so the so the church that stability for me I saw that when everything else is changing that was the one place I could depend on its Reliance so back to
Finance for the teaching of the church that really teaches not just give so that we can meet our obligations and then it takes us a step further and say that may be our church responsibility our Christian Duty or whatever but I want you to learn how now to eliminate your
Debt and so people get paid to do that to talk to families about debt reduction uh to talk about financial investment and On Any Given Sunday depending on the church it offers that as a Ministry to help people say no I want to help you so that you don’t stay in apartment forever
That you’re not a rental forever you become a homeowner and the political power that that brings with somebody having their own uh property uh that’s just one aspect but also the the political power of the black church that’s always involved it’s unfortunate we still have to open the doors of our
Church church when candidates are um being paraded um and yet we do it to say to our church mostly this is important to us people gave up their their lives people marched uh people cause as John L said good trouble for you to exercise your right
To vote so so vote so so it becomes a political strength not just in its electability but also in its electability who who we’re going to choose based off who’s going to empower our community for us to have the voice that has been silenced so many ways the
Educational piece one of the things when the state of Texas started taking books off the shelf that we did in our congregation is to say okay well we got teachers here uh we have professors at the University so we ask Melanie Wilson uh Melanie is a as a young scholar said
Melanie I tell you what you do you select the books that’s been taken off the shelf put it in the hands of those of us who favor a particular literature and we’re going to sit down with our people our young people and we’re going to teach them what’s been taken on off the
Shelf um in the words of uh David Wilford who uh uh uh who’s over in the religion department Dr Wilford Wilford says who who is at home in the black church in many ways Dr Wilford says the worst thing you can do to a black church is tell them they can’t read something
Because if you tell them they can’t do it they gonna go do the very opposite of what you tell them they can do and uh and we laugh about that but it’s true and so so when I think of the power of the black church those are some of the tangible
Ways and more uh that I see the church activating itself again in education you you g to take our books away from her you you GNA take Tony marrison off the state you know you you gonna take the killer marenberg off the you know well you take Harper’s book we we’ll teach
Our children you don’t want to to read Ellison’s invisible man whatever you take off the shelf we have people here who have studied in those areas we’ll bring people in to do it and have them to teach you this is how you read it this is why
You read it this is how you apply what you’ve read if you want to take it a step further this is the methology that this person Ed this is how you can use it in your own training if you want to go further from high school to college
And you interested in literary history or whatever it may be to sit down and say the the church and the church has the power to do it if we can begin to mobilize those gifts and Empower people to do it and and you just can’t be scared to do it
You just have to do it you know you have to re the criticisms uh uh what people may uh put on you you just go do it you know and then the last thing is when you start talking about uh the stability of that address is when you’re involved in
Social justice issues one of the things that we’re working at in our church and work at we do two things one is everybody that uh become a member of our church they have to register the vote so while you sitting down and filling out I want to be a member and I
Want say and fill out the voter’s card it is a well I’m already reg we’re register again you may not we may not have no record to register anyway and we really hold them to that say register go do it and then the next thing is is to
Say that uh every every Ministry in our church get involved in a social justice activity um I I Don’t Preach every Sunday everything that happens uh in the media for the week but I want our church to every day be involved in human suffering and not
Just the side of suffering but but also in the joys and the celebrations of people life how do we involve ourself in all that and uh and so so the the that address of being that one address gave me as a Young Man growing up and and and
It gave me so much stability I love though my father and mother separated and I never saw him ever again from that day I love the man with everything that’s in me and people I said because he gave me life I mean the point is I whatever happened
Between my mother and he I have life and God had given me the privilege how are you going to use that life and the second thing is I had a mother that would not let you malign belittle uh your dad you know that’s your dad you you you don’t say that you
Know nobody gets away with that and so out of that dysfunctionality I found a lot of stability and a lot of that came came from the church look at the pull pit you know uh I don’t want to go on because I know we’re going to get to women and all
That but the the different people that I saw play Rose there is what shaped me so so that’s that’s part of that stability economically politically culturally socially uh to help you grow up to be the whole person I and I then finally I just had a mother that didn’t let you
Whine about things you know she really you just didn’t do it you you pick up and you go you know I don’t want to hear about the wrong side of the tracks I don’t want to hear about all that kind of stuff you know they she used to say
We may live in a ghetto but you don’t have to be ghetto you may you know you can live in get but you ain’t got to have ghetto thoughts that kind of stuff you know you had to be dressed you had to be groomed you had to you know and of
Course people today would say well uh that’s respectability well at that time that that’s exactly what we needed we needed respectability nobody was was going to give it to us and so Rea Franklin started singing it R sbct that’s what it means to me you know you
Know and so respect was very much a part of our theology you know that was church you know that was the whole thing yeah so that’s kind of what I’m getting to a sought of get to that address and that place of stability yeah well thank you I really appreciated the
Three stories or the three major scriptures that you shared and the stories that you shared with these scriptures and I really would like you to um just unpack a little bit more particularly starting with the first one around atrocity stories yeah um and I think this one is so very important in
The divisive times that we live in where it seems like every time we turn around yeah there’s a new atrocity so could you speak a little bit more about the courage and the genius of the black church in terms of how we respond to these atrocity stories yeah yeah uh
Thank the Lord for the church yeah uh uh theologically the the the talk today begins uh it actually moves through a a pro a progression of of sin salvation Grace and celebration you know without saying it you know pick it up and say oh you know he’s crafted something in here he’s
He’s he he’s naming this by using the words of Luke 13 repentance of sin so you know that if you don’t see this as a sin that this is not just a well I don’t drink or smoke kind of thing he he’s put violence and has placed uh abuse in a category story
Of sin that this is a violation against God how God has created us and and I I’ve always seen the black church rise up in those moments um good or ill uh but but always rise up in his moment and so so these last years have been horrendous in
America I mean it’s almost a replay of the atrocities that we saw in the you know post Civil War 19th century early early 20s I mean I I can remember it it was almost like a diamino effect Trayvon Martin is killed Church doesn’t know how to respond at this point other than
Everybody was wearing hoodies you know it became a kind of uh emblem of of protest and and and and there been so many of those kinds of deaths um that the church spends itself parenting the congregation again saying to young men and women you have to be careful you know I’m 64 years
Old and I’m pulled over and I have to put my hand hands on the steering wheel to somebody who’s white that stops me that’s young enough to be my one of my children who wants to violate my citizenship verbally and just physically because of my blackness you know it’s it’s Frederick
Douglas comment about Haiti when he said the only crime or sin that haiy committed she was born black you know so this whole kind of Blackness and and the church has taken up the manle for years to stand up against that kind of violence physical violence verbal violence the the the literary violence
Media violence you know violence all over the place you know and so the so the so and one of the joys I have is is watching how the church responds to these atrocities now I say this to some of my friends who may make a critique that well this church
Doesn’t do this I said everybody doesn’t respond to these atrocities the same way your way may be marching another person’s way may be I’m not marching but I support I financially give to this another one may say I make sure that my people involved you know uh
It was one of the things I can’t remember I think it was Dr con who talks about well how do you protest how do you and he says well you can join organizations that do it so people uh people in the black church become uh people involved in fraternities and
Sororities social organizations to extend the ministry of the church into more social ways of how we address particular issues issues that affect uh the African-American Community but if the black community is good then all other communities is going to be good you know Brown Community is going to be
Good so it’s different ways that the church responds to that you know uh I I I I really am interested in Reading further in the violence it happened with me of what I mean the the interest I became interested in the subject after killing of Trayvon Martin it was it was
Not reading the history of uh emit it was not uh you know the bombing in Alabama th those reacted those caus a different kind of reaction to me but the the the killing of Trayvon Martin began this pursuit to say we live in a very violent culture in the different places
Of VI and how does the church get involved to eliminate that kind kind of thing so that’s really what what started shaping my thinking for the day to say here you have a group of people who are going to gather together who are giving you their attention to say well what
Lessons can we learn because I mean if the black church is teaching the white church and the white church is then responding to the black church so this is a big conversation that goes on and if you can just get the conversation started we start sensing our similarities and and
And and once that happen we can make things start happening because you can’t do in America uh without each other you know you you you got you got to have each other so so that’s what that’s that whole thing of saying naming these things not these are not just social
Evils this is sin that that’s what I’m getting to this this is a violation of God’s order for the world this is not how God intended the world to be and the church has the biggest megaphone and it needs open its mouth to say this is not
How God intended this to be all right and now we now we translate that into incarnational Ministries where we get involved in all these other things and say and we our goal now is to partner with God in the world to eliminate these evils that so negatively affect so many
Different people yeah okay well thank you the next question um relates to your second Point yeah and what really spoke to me about this was um you’re talk your mention of the examination of self and the society and how the black church invites all of God’s children to the table yeah
And what a reflection of Amazing Grace that is yeah yeah could you unpack that a little bit more i’ be glad to talk about be glad talk about that that that’s one of my favorite Parables and it’s a powerful Parable and though people hear that and they say yeah it it
Changes when you say you did hear what Jesus was saying don’t you about go bring go to the highways and hedges and compel them to come cuz I have room at the table and at the very moment that you say that you say now you know when he says in this
Parable this is what the Kingdom looks like um and we’re going to invite all these people they may not be the people that you expected to come to the church and I think one of the problems that that well one of the challenges that the church has
Is to open the door and let all God’s people in let the gospel do the other thing verses coming around again you know taking temperature and Paul and on the slide asking now are you this are you that are you this and that that’s not my
Job my job as a citizen of God’s kingdom is to Proclaim message where he says to us whosoever will that’s a big word whosoever will you serious whosoever will in in my church uh for years I pastored all of the I didn’t even know they were rememberers my church they they were the
Hottest uh hip hop artists in town right and and and the strongest in the South hip hop organization called rap aot records and this is when the ghetto bo boys are at the top I didn’t know they were members of my church and and I’m I’m wearing out the
Genre of rap on some of the lyrics I’m and they sitting right there none of them were offended by it every one of them United with the church they became and still are some of the best people in that church they didn’t stop doing their music they didn’t stop doing what they
Do but they found stability in the church cuz I later found out all of them had grown up in the church so this wasn’t new news of them I asked asked one of them uh I asked one of them would would he do a a WRA line
To uh one of the hymns and he said to me very politely no and uh and this is what he said to me he said because when I go to church I want to go to church I don’t want to do what I do when I come to
Church but the but I so I asked him I said you know well how did you get to this church he said because you made it very clear that I was welcome in this church very very clear and I did mean it and I mean it
Now that when I say the door to church is open and you may come I I whoever is in that line is welcome in that church my goal again is to make room at the table that the Lord has created I preach the gospel and I just let the
Gospel do the work the rest of it and and that’s it now you come in a lot of criticism when you talk like that you know somebody’s going to hear this say you know Wes Wes is reduced to standards of the Gospel he’s reduced to Integrity of the church call it what you
Want for me again if that Parable stands as an invitation of God’s people then that’s exactly what that Parable is invite it them they won’t come enlarge the list still got room go get everybody and and it’s not an accident that Luke uses the language that he uses when he
Start talking about the blind C he knew societally how people looked at people like that that they would they weren’t just broken Humanity they were discardable Humanity they they didn’t matter and Jesus knew exactly what he was saying as Luke tells this story to say these are the people that our Lord
Specialize in the people nobody else want to be bothered with he specialized in people like that yeah so the black church as you see it is starting with belonging believing and behaving come on now you right make sure I have that when we well I didn’t I I I don’t take credit
For it I’ve heard it in other places yeah I need that yeah yeah belonging believe and behaving yeah where after the day they going to say you and I came up with that we we going to put our bark on that that’s our thing right there yeah okay well we
Are running down time here so I wanted to also hit on your your third Point um because it really stuck out to me when you shared Dr Parson’s story and this idea of Return To Joy particularly intention with this atrocities stories because for me um this last
Year as a professor here at truid I had the opportunity to take students on a 12month immersive exploring Lamentations as it relates to racial violence and so we spent time in Washington DC through the museum we went to Buffalo New York and had the opportunity to um stand in solidarity
With people who had experienced such significant loss in the face of that atrocity at the Tops supermarket but my colleagues um that we created the course from Calvin and Niagara we also got the opportunity to visit with Mrs ply Shepard the woman left yeah at Emmanuel yeah am Church
Yeah and I will never forget sitting with her in her expressing um you know what she was going through as Dylan Ruth’s feet were getting closer and closer to her and she was reciting the 23rd psalm and of course you know this was a very traumatic situation for her but she
Talked about experiencing a peace of God that she had never experienced and of you know she also talked about some other things um that made that path from living through that tragedy the recognition that all of these people that she knew and love had died and she was
Saved but one of the um things that um I started to recall as you talked about everyone regardless of Injustice can find a reason for rejoicing yeah the fact that in the face of here or she was a nurse who’s used to caring for people who’s who’s watching life just being
Taken out of people she still found a reason to praise God yeah and to return to Joy yeah and over the over the course of the years that have passed and talking to her it sounds like it’s been a cycle of things coming to her mind and returning
To that place of joy that deeper joy that she has in in a sweeter fellowship with Christ than the one she had before the tragedy right and so if you could say a bit more about what you were thinking as it relates to this idea of this reason for rejoicing yeah yeah um
Again the the the path of sin and repentance this setting you up for grace and then celebration of life because too often I too often when people try to tell the Black Church’s story they turn our celebration of rejoicing into some Act of entertainment over against an authentic expression of the things that
God either has done he’s doing or we really believe for him to do and then and and so this this whole piece of joy in the face of Injustice is not to say oh you know oh it doesn’t matter or we we’re just going to you
Know people used to use a phrase I hated it you know I’mma Just Praise My Way Through you know I always try to challenge our church develop your own language don’t borrow everything from everybody you know uh because some of it you know some stuff it sounds good I
Don’t I don’t know if that’s how that’s supposed to be taken so I wasn’t talking about a I’m not not I am not suggesting uh any trivial expression of joy not even a verbal expression or an animated expression in many ways as much as it is an attitude and a
Disposition that I will not allow the atrocities I will not allow the barriers and I will not allow uh the circumstances to prevent me from rejoicing um I think it was 1978 daddy king spoke at the commencement of Bishop college and by this time you know he he
He’s gone through the death of his son ad uh Martin that kind his his wife orera and he made this comment I’ll never forget I can’t remember much of what he said that night or that that afternoon he said I refuse to let anybody make me hate and I’m sitting there saying if
There anybody got a reason to hate a lot of people he got it and he declared it and you knew that he had been living with that you won’t make me hate I take that as a way of rejoicing in the face of negative circumstances that he said you don’t get the power
Uh back to the Emanuel Church story where one of the family members says to Dylan rof I forgive you I I was so angry I I I man I was so mad that that lady said that but she brought me under deep conviction that she knew a whole lot
More about Jesus than I did she wasn’t eliminating him from Justice she was saying I refuse to give you power over me you will not have power over me and she went on and say you took something precious from me something that I can never get back
Again someone that I can never talk to again and the more she talked I understood what the real power of rejoicing is because she had that eschatological hope she knew that it’s taken from me now but it’ll be reunited with me and that becomes that sometimes unexplainable Theology of the black
Church to say in the face of all of this you mean to tell me that you can still find joy you know that’s one of our lines you know I still got joy and she really she really did she convicted me on that I would not give you the
Power and that that’s what I was getting to in the face of that they’ve been beaten you know they they’ve been beaten they’ve been malign they’ve been humiliated dehumanized they’re thrown in jail and uh and and in the middle that they singing and praying I I think sometimes
When we talk about these stories that uh we might need to cut less scripture and just focus in on all the happenings that’s going around when I say cut that scripture we can’t cover all of what we want to do is what I get to it but the S
What were the attitude of the people that see them in stocks and chain singing and praying you know what were they singing and praying and how are they reacting to this and I’m sure somebody said whatever they got I need that you know whatever they got I need
That they they here for no reason I’m here for a reason and they’re fing joying this circumstances what they’re really saying is no God is in control of our circumstance and and so this is not this ethereal language when you say what God is in control say no no no no we’re
Talking about a everpresent help in the time of trouble God being in it as well so so to rejoice in that sense yeah so you gave us Three terms to think about the liberating truth of the black church stability Grace and joy I’m wondering if you had any others but you just didn’t have time to share I think I’m going leave it at that okay leave it alone while you’re doing good you know I don’t want to start
Making things up you know all right well I I say that because a few words came to mind for me as you were talking um one was imagination yeah yeah and resilience yeah yeah it was another yeah so I was just wondering were those did those fit into your three yeah I
Think yeah I think so the next time I do I’ll put in imagination and what’s the other one resilience yeah oh res yeah iability yeah I need to do them to imagination and res that’s all I’m going say about that okay that’s okay well this brings us to the question
I guess you’ve been waiting for in terms of the black church um as you know probably about 70% of the members in black churches are are women and you talked about the role I’ve been waiting this one yeah play um so my question is in terms of the
Um the ways that that women provide examples of these three um could you speak a little bit more you shared about the stories of people like M till yeah um you talked about fyis sweetle yeah um can you share about other examples of the St stories and the lives of women
Like your mother would be one as well yeah yeah I’m trying to remember how Anne broad um the Harvard historian she refers to American history as American religious history that women not only make up the majority of the population in our congregation but in many ways they are the Reas in the
Families that they’re the ones that takes the initiative to maintain a spirituality within the church uh within the home and they become often the first Pastor the children encounter I always uh try to elevate my my men but I always in my head know the
Role that women play in home and I also know the role that women play in church I mentioned my two aunties who were the secretaries of the church I never would say this publicly until my pastor died and they did too but my auntie was probably more Pastor than he
Was and what I mean by that is is that my my Aunt Barbara is the one that took care of all the responsibilities she was the one to make sure that my pastor was at the wedding at the funeral at the baby blessing at the uh home dedication at the graduation
In those days you had the time to do all that wherever he was at at the political meeting at the rally and if he wasn’t she was representing so I would always say she was she was the pastor of the church you know every communication that went out
Came from her office every letter that he wanted to send she was the one that constructed it and was very involved in everything in the church um the area of women been more visible in ministries of the church had never been an issue that I had to pray
About now older pastors who knew my background would say well Wes is like that because his mama raised him I said well that’s true she did raise me but my conversion that was a scripture I could never get out of my head as a boy and when I was converted I didn’t
Know it had a technical term to it but I never could get it out of my head and that’s that line that we have been created in the image and likeness of God that’s that’s where the value of being black come from right but it’s
Also where I saw the role of women all women and so I would have difficulties when I would hear because this not this is just something I never had to pray about ever one of my professors who is is a top New Testament scholar showed me
In uh First Timothy and he said rap what words is that and I didn’t say that he said that’s also that’s a continuation Paul is saying also I said and Paul is shaping administratively the church for Timothy the pastorate and that is a particular location for that church that
Was my interpretation of it that there is something contextual about how we do hermeneutics I don’t know if that’s what Paul meant for everybody I don’t think I think I think Paul gets a lot of slack uh that he’s a good person to put things
On but that’s not how I read it I can never get past God had created us in His image and his likeness that that was it that for me so it wasn’t theological it wasn’t hermeneutical it wasn’t sociological it was just out of IM Margo day that this is what God
Did and it just shaped me and I figured if if God could use me then he certainly could use a woman I just I I just figure he could so I’m not trying to score no points with nobody when I said I just don’t I didn’t see the issue you
See um I I have a I have a young lady in my church her name is Deborah Bale and Deborah can really preach right and so one of my men who started with me she’s one of the founding members of our church so I knew Deborah she was a
Member my member when I passed at Greater Mount Zion Missionary Baptist Church so I’ve known her all of almost all of her adult life so she started preaching one of my most Faithful Men he stands as a security in our church every Sunday told me years later years later uh maybe 10
Years later 80 97 he said pastor I need to say something to you he said you know I never ever believed in women preachers or accepted them I said you didn’t said never he said but manam when I heard Deborah Preach Today I know the Lord called that woman to
Preach and and and and he stands on that to this day to this day so I I so I just didn’t see it I I I I I just I just didn’t understand uh where the problem was so uh and then one one other story about women
That helped me promote that is one of my dear friends I won’t call his name today but he was having a real difficulty because his mother-in-law was a preacher I said what does she live in your house said no I said well what business is what she want to do you know
Lady grown she can do what she want well he didn’t believe free I said is she a member your church I said no what are you worried about then she’s not a member of your church but she worked as a correctional child chaplain I said well go do a job he said
I can’t you got to be a a woman to do it I said really I said uh and and and you have to go to Seminary you have I said so what you’re saying is she she’s trained he said oh yeah she she graduate Seminary you not she’s doing work where you
Can’t I said boy go get some money and help that lady to do the ministry she’s trying to do to help those women who are incarcerated so when they come out they can be placed I said you don’t know she may be the pipeline God uses to send
These women to your church but then that goes back to Story number two Luke 14 are you open at the table enough to receive people like that you see so um I I hope we can resolve that issue in a hurry you know I I just I
The women sing in the choir they’re the ushers they’re the greeters you know and in our church they the preachers they the deacons and you know if if if they lead a church I’m just gonna pack up and go with them that’s what I’m GNA do I’m
Just you know I’m just I’m and and if the men tell the truth when they pack them leave they going with them too so so I don’t I don’t really under under but but but I that that is an area uh that I constantly I don’t know
If I pray about it but I constantly talk to men about is to say you know uh don’t don’t make enemies with the people who are friends to you and your church uh they here supporting you and and women are so loyal to Loyal in churches
I I I have a lady I won’t call her name she she’s a she is a bonafide schol and uh waited until her pastor died never never made any waves and uh but she just preached I guess a year or so ago and I’ve been knowing this lady she’s very much
Responsible for my involvement in University Ministries and things like that she was a preacher then uh but but never made waves never Buck the system just stayed and waited I just sit and think how many years did we lose with her being in the pull pit or being
Empowered to do what God had called her to do you know that that that’s so unfair you know that that that’s so unfair to keep people away from that you know yeah well thank you for your this opportunity to have this conversation with you and I look forward to extending
It into into the future yeah we going to do it yeah we going to do Lamentations we go we going to figure out what’s going on in Lamentations yeah thank [Applause] you
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