Beyond Brotherhood: Riley Strain, Fraternities and Hazing

Welcome to 50 words for murder where we delve into the stories behind the headlines I your host Justin and today I have a very special guest with me Dan catulo um who is a director a producer I actually met him um this past weekend dealing with Riley strain down in

Nashville and I’ll let him introduce himself a little bit more and we’re going to be talking about uh Riley today and fraternities and just a whole bunch of stuff it’s going to be a really interesting episode welcome Dan thanks Justin so um you know like you said I’m

A I’m a filmmaker um I live in U in Southern California um I predominantly do music stuff like I’m most known for some of my big music specials like everything from the food Fighters at the Acropolis and Dave Matthew Central Park and Alicia Keys and uh Russian Rio all

That stuff but I also do a lot of documentaries and I do a lot of serious documentaries um you know it’s my documentary career started back in 2013 with a film called the square that I was an executive producer on that we were fortunate enough to get an Academy Award

Nomination and win Sundance and won a few Emmys and it went on from there but the past eight years I’ve been really entrenched in uh the world of Hazen shockingly that’s what brought me to Nashville um because I was I was already there I was going there on business

Anyway because we were opening up an office there for my company but um I wanted to peek into the Riley case because um I’ve been doing a docky series on Hazen and I also did a short film about a boy who died at a Delta Kai

BCU so Delta Kai is already on my radar and I’ve already been looking into them and when I heard what happened to Riley um you know I wanted to go there and really kind of just peek around and see what we could find out about it okay and so regarding Riley let’s in

Case you somehow were under a rock and you missed that whole thing that was going on uh Riley stra was a 22-year-old uh student from missou from University of Missouri he had come down to Nashville for spring formal um and then was removed or kicked out escorted

However you want to put it from Luke Bryant’s bar Off Broadway and then all of a sudden he was missing there was various surveillance footage that showed him uh walking up the street running into a pole and then all of a sudden he seemed seemingly vanished Into Thin Air

Um a lot of social media got involved with the case trying to help find him which ultimately he was found by a barge worker dock worker uh you know between a barge under some debris so it wasn’t a very happy ending and it was really quite tragic and one of the things and

One of the reasons I wanted Dan to come on today is because we were talking and then he said something that I had not realized now while people this past week um when all of this happened we talking about the fraternity lawyering up and the brothers and you know I kind of

Would come on and say look fraternities at this level they get lawyers they’re there to protect the fraternity they’re there to protect the name but what Dan brought up was why weren’t any of the brothers there searching and it made me stop and think and that is one of the reasons why

I wanted him to come on this and have a conversation because I think that there is I was in a fraternity Dan was in a fraternity I think that there is a bigger issue at play that needs more awareness around it and I think that for

The sake of Riley we need to to have this conversation uh as well regarding deltai and regarding fraternities because it’s supposed to be a Brotherhood right Dan correct and I mean go to Delta Kai’s website they promote that uh you know um and it’s also like the police I don’t I

Think the police even took their foot off the pedal a little bit on this because it was fraternity related um in general when there’s any kind of Nefarious activity around if someone was in a fraternity um the police tend to chalk it off as boys being boys or they don’t

Really look at things that could be a crime right in their face so again like on the on the Riley thing you know I told you this and other people like it’s you know it looks that the P looks like the fraternity probably had nothing to

Do with what happened by that bridge um but what I found really strange was you know I don’t did you go to Luke Bryan’s were you at the bar did you go I didn’t inside but I I didn’t go inside but I’ve been there in the past I know

It’s it’s massive it’s like 30,000 square feet what three four levels but there’s only three exit there’s the main one and one on each side and um yeah we we went through it extensively and we went through every staircase and my understand is the boys were on the roof

And the roof had a very clear view of the front and so even the the back entrance is kind of on the side from what I saw and no matter how they escorted them out like I don’t think the bar the bars are very it’s a it’s a very

Well-run machine and they have probably three I’ve never seen more cameras in my life so I’m sure they’re going to be exonerated so because you know they they claim they only gave one drink but of course if they throw someone out they’re not going to take his friends through

The back office and they would they’re not going to parade someone through the middle of a bar so but even if they put him outside it should have taken his friends minutes if that to catch up with him I mean he could not have gone that

Far and that that fast but you know even if let’s say some freak thing his friends lost him um what I just don’t understand is when when realized he was missing whether it was that night or the next morning I do find a little weird that they waited 12 hours to call the

Cops but when they finally realized he’s missing why were they not really out there in force and they may have been but why are they not out there talking about that it it feels like there was just this this Code of Silence that hit right away where we heard nothing from

Them I had one person message me oh the Delta Kai brothers were posting a lot well I didn’t see any of it the only thing I saw I saw one post on the Delta Kai social media page or Instagram page with a GoFundMe but you would have thought Delta Kyle with this wide

Network of Brothers you know active active members plus alumni you were’re talking about well over 100,000 people why were there not as a group a blowing up social media to try to find them but more importantly because you were there I was there no one from Del the kai was

Searching for him I mean there were lots of Tik tokers and then the Cajun Navy in fact I went down to the site where they found his credit card four times in three days I didn’t see a police officer there once which was crazy to me mie did

I didn’t see the police but I just would have thought that if anything remember the Deasia Navy set up a pop-up 10 they had a little base camp I would have thought Delta Kai would have had a base camp put together why weren’t they there because it’s not like

The police said stay out of it we got this the police weren’t really doing anything because they didn’t know what they were dealing with they don’t know if he ran away I mean even when they found his credit card it was obvious something was going on but they really

It still wasn’t a crime in their eyes I don’t think it was it was a Miss inperson case so you would think that the fraternity Brothers over all people would be the ones to be searching I mean what the hell were we doing there and the fraternity wasn’t there yeah and my

Understanding is that where there were 200 people that came down for this formal too so they had 200 Delta kis plus probably dates probably some family members that live near here there are we know that there’s going to be Delta Kai Omni in Nashville so yeah where were

They because it was it was a lot of social media out there it was a lot of volunteers Cajun Navy people like that but that was kind of one of the things like I said when you said it it hit me like where were they they ran back to

Missouri and even if and I think you’re the one that said this and and I agree with it even if the fraternity came out and said like at a higher level clam up be quiet we’re taking the silent approach on this and this guy was my

Friend listen to that when you were 20 I mean told him to go f themselves like no I mean it’s crazy I mean I only met you in Nashville but that the night after I met you if you were missing I would have been looking for you much less a brother

Of mine like I mean if if a fraternity brother would missing I there’s nothing anybody could have done to clam me up and then there someone else was say know they had to get back for tests well you know when whenever there’s a tragedy or anything at at any major university they

Allow students to take a leave of absence there’s no doubt in my mind missou had allowed them to take time off on test it and by the way how how good could these kids have if they really were that distraught like they’re saying now they probably didn’t do well in the

Tests anyway like I mean why would they make these kids take tests you know um we know that look there’s been problems at missou in the past I’m close to the santulli family and the San tulis you know their son Danny was you know you know he’s he’s basically a vegetable now

He’s blind and he’s you know in a wheelchair and why don’t you why don’t you tell them a little bit of Story the background on that story if you’re if you’re com there’s criminal charges that that came into play but at missou at Fiji they uh they um they basically Haze

Him and the whole thing’s on camera they forced him to drink an entire bottle of alcohol and um you know the alcohol poison and basically almost killed them uh and now the family has to live the rest of their life with taking care of them um there were multiple people that

Were charged with crimes but but again the the the the the attitude towards um if this was the chess club or a soccer team or or better yet if this was just kids messing around and this happened it would be aggressively prosecuted but when it comes to

Ferneys they act like oh it’s just boys being boys and oh it was an accident or whatever and for whatever reason most fraternity related in cases just don’t ever end up usually in criminal charges or people in jail the sanul hired this lawyer named David bian who I know and

David really pressured a DA and the police to really purs criminal charges and it was only after them going to the Press over and over again and the pressure from the public that that that happened um and when when I first started looking the Riley I reached out to you know Tom

Santulli uh you know and Chrissy who um who’s Danny’s an and have you guys heard about what’s going on in Nashville and Tom said look if the strain family wants our help we have a detective at you know that that handles missou that will maybe

Put an eye on the delta Cowboys and I just find it very strange that you know the people who are with them who now aren looking no one wanted even to like look that way you know the police are very quick even on this case right now

And you and me were both on that bridge I mean by the bridge like some doesn’t feel right about it you know where they found the credit card and you know I don’t even know if I took a run and start and I do off that Cliff if I could

Have made it in the water so it you know okay something bad probably happened and most likely had something maybe it was a homeless I lost sound on you I lost sound on you for a second there sorry say that again I said it’s most likely

Due to uh you know a homeless person or something else that happened over there you know I’m not saying the fraternity did anything to him but I don’t know how he ended up in the water um I mean there people don’t realize how far the water

Is from the ledge and even if you tumble down I don’t I mean remember I was talking about at dividual I’m like I feel like a big dummy a 6′ s dummy and throwing it off the ledge and see what happens because I don’t think you could

Physically hit that water and so P what I told you if you get one I will Co I will throw it in for you and we’ll film the whole thing so do one thing is I never doubt the police when when remember everybody was jumping on the koberger case thinking they weren’t M

The entire time they had a suspect and they executed and they got someone right um maybe remember we saw these other there’s a lot of cameras around that area that that footage was never released maybe they have the incident on camera because the family was very quick

To say oh this was an accident or whatever um yeah I’m not a fall expert maybe he could fall off that that ledge or or maybe he fell off the ledge and a homeless person you know robbed him and then they threw his body in the water

Who knows but when it comes to the fraternity though I do know I knew the way fraternities act and it’s always the same thing when any anything ever happens that’s bad whether they had something to do with it or not it’s this constant thing you have to protect the

House everybody clams up no one talks to anybody they don’t do interviews with the police they just literally clam up and you know they pretend like nothing happened and and from what I saw that’s kind of what I saw in this instance you know if I’m wrong I’m wrong but the

Activity I saw on Tik Tok and on social media were for people like you and Olivia not Delta Kai members you know Delta Kai millions of dollars in the bank why w why weren’t they doing a reward why weren’t they doing promoted post on social media we know how

Effective social media could be they weren’t doing any of that they weren’t there at all they you know I was talking to one of the brothers um and you know he you know one the couple things that he told me is you know one of the reasons and obviously we don’t know this

Yet aoxy came back and said that it was accidental for Riley um we’re still waiting on toxicology that hasn’t come back yet assuming that Nashville even gives us because Nashville does have a tendency to a body in the water for two weeks toxicology would be compromised it

Could be it could be um but the water’s also cold so I guess we’ll see if they pull anything or not maybe they will maybe it’ll be inconclusive but you know if but what I was told is that they’ve seen him drink and he does not act like

That when he drinks and it looked to me like he was roofied and apparently when we did videos on that bar all of a sudden we have a barrage of comments coming in saying like oh I was ruied at that bar I was ruied oh we were here for

Basher party my friend was ruied oh this person and it was like 20 comments maybe more by the end of it where people were all talking about their stories of being roofied in downtown Nashville and obviously that’s not good for tourism so they might want to keep again like

Whenever anything happens with a fraternity no they don’t want anything they don’t want to make it public because it’s bad for business same thing at a university and I imagine same thing with tourism Bureau in Nashville it would be disastrous for them if it made was made public that people are getting

Drugged in especially on Broadway um and and you know I almost agree with you like watching that video especially if he really did only have one drink he was pretty messed up that when he fell going across that you know he was going across that one parking lot on the sidewalk um

That was uh that was that was a little odd you know especially when people were saying he was fine right before and then you know the weird thing is I have all these people that apparently have information and tips and they like I did you know I was there with with Olivia

And I was looking into the stuff and then I that one Tik tocker guy posted that video of me and next thing you know I have all these people calling me saying you know um I have video or I my friend saw him walking and heard him on

The phone with someone and the police aren’t listening to us so now let’s let’s give the police credit they probably got annihilated with you know thousands if not tens of thousands of tips right I’m positive you’re right I’m positive you’re right you because I’ve been around these situations I’m pretty

Sure of them a lot of them are from cucko Doodles too that woke up in the middle of the night saying God came to him and said this is what happened but um there are people that on that PE somebody literally asked me if it was the like have you heard the Rapture

Theory and I was like y’all think he was raptured had a couple psychic and so you know and so look I get it they’re inated but there are people that are being sound pretty credible to me that are like begging me to help get information to the family or

Whatever it just feels like again it remember on cerg everybody thought they weren’t doing anything and they were done [ __ ] on the police and turns out all along they had they knew what they were doing but there you know there are people that feel that that are saying they have very detailed

Information and they aren’t getting any love from the police or anything the police are very quick to say it’s an accident we’re putting guard rails up yeah I I I you know the whole thing just doesn’t feel right and it feels like something else happened in that vicinity

There because someone just doesn’t end up in in the river um in that area and remember when we were there when in a three-day period three people fell off the cliff right or didn’t they yeah they found two and then a homeless person fell in and they rescued him or him or

Her and she was they were alive and none of them none of them made it in the water so I I just don’t see I don’t know where you know especially where his credit card was found I just don’t I mean I I I don’t know how you can end up

In that water there the only other thing is cuz you know if his phone was pinged underneath the bridge maybe he could have been on top maybe he went up that staircase there and was going over the bridge and maybe someone was chasing him and he jumped in the water thinking he

Can get away from not realizing how high it is I I don’t know it just it just feels odd to me that that whole situation but the behavior from the fraternity seems odd so they’re posted on social media now they put a post out you know you know please respect our

Privacy our hearts go to the family you know and to me that’s a little too late you know too little too late um you know I I just don’t know what that you know you get sold on the notion of Brotherhood so the the the the biggest

Um takeaway from this is if you’re joining a fraternity for that lifelong Brotherhood that people have your back no matter what well you probably shouldn’t join a fraternity because this is proof that the notion of Brotherhood as they sell it is not there um you know

I was in a fraternity in you know 1990 1991 to in that area and like it was a little tighter back then but one thing I’ve seen is that you know these are glorified drinking clubs now they act like gangs in my opinion there’s just no real Brotherhood anymore um it’s all

About money the national only cares that you pay your dues and they keep their uh you know their little game going but you know everything that they say on their website about building upstanding gentleman and I just think it’s all horseshit yeah so I’ll I’ll say this on

That on that note with what you said so um I told you that I was I was atique but I didn’t finish college atique I I quit the fraternity and here’s the reason why um it was very clear that you had some members that were there because they really wanted those members there

And then you had members that were there because you knew that they were going to pay their dues on time um I was more the latter my dad was at the time was covering my fraternity dues and and every you know every time they needed the dues they were there they were on

Time and the the one moment that really spoke to me and I will say this I have really good friends to this day that were in the fraternity that I met with the fraternity they’re lifelong friends but there was one person who um during his pledging he was the class right

After me um during his pledging thought about quitting he was very upset and literally the entire fraternity let’s all go to his house let’s go we’re going to talk to him we’re going to make him feel welcome and we did that’s what we did but then I’m sitting there while

This is going on and I’m like when I was struggling and I was thinking about quitting not one of these including you know my big brother showed up for me and I’m like this [ __ ] and after that I’ve resigned so um you know I I agree with that statement is that I just

Really feel that it’s it’s pick a maybe maybe Riley was was just a paycheck to them well we saw you know fraternities have changed drastically over the past especially 15 years um I’ve been studying fraternities for the past eight and a half years I’ve done now five five films on

Fraternities um two of them won Emmy Awards um my my my newest project protect the house is an eight-part docky series and we’ve shot it almost over the P almost five years now and we have 450 hours of content 230 interviews everything from University presidents to

FBI agents to uh you know Senator cloar Lindsey Graham and Senator Casey um we do a real deep dive into the system and how it got this way and from when I see like where things started really going ay we started seeing a drastic change with attorneys the way they operate and

How things run are run right around the time Gary dersley Jr died in 2007 if you notice 2007 was a big year because that’s when we really started seeing social media really come into play the way it is now you know Facebook started really taking off and what happened is

You know I think the Nationals were just asleep at the wheel they didn’t realize how powerful social media would become so remember when you were a te and I was a cette what went on at fraternities in in some respects like when we went at meetings or initiations it was secret

And that was cool back then our society kind of shifted especially over the past decade where it’s almost cooler to share secrets than it is to keep secrets and people you know we started seeing almost a competition based thing where a lot of frater like we have a whole section in

Protect house where we have well over a hundred videos that were sent to me I have videos of kids being waterboarded being shocked with car batteries uh being forced to do like Navy SEAL train in the midle ocean like crazy [ __ ] branded just Nutty Nutty stuff that

Really I never really saw didn’t really exist like they do now and a lot of that started really getting crazy back you know around Gary dying Gary was firstc to drink a bottle of pet of um absolute Citron vodka and again remember we started transitioning from beer to now

Flavored alcohol right vodka and stuff you know but now it’s progressed almost every death that we’re seeing now whether it’s you know Adam Oaks or Nolan B it’s whiskey and it’s or it’s grain alcohol and um and sometimes drugs are combined with it and sometimes the methods of the Hazen is much more

Vicious because it’s almost like a badge of honor these kids film these things and then post it on social media to try to one up each other and it’s like a bragging thing like look what I went through I really earned it what they don’t realize is is you know you could

Kill people and people are dying you know and they can you know for unfortunately we didn’t have a death last year that we know of uh we won’t know for sure ever because fraternity Hazen is not a crime in some states it’s only a felony in 15 states right now and

Um most of the times it goes unreported so sometimes when there is a an incident from Hazen it’s chalked off as a kid just partying too much or you know um it you know it’s just even if it is something more nefarious like maybe someone you know got tortured or

Whatever the fraternity will go out way to cover it up but we’re seeing um a drastic change of the behavior and unfortunately the Nationals have done nothing to control that and so you know almost every case I’ve covered whether it’s you know Nolan Burch I did a film

Called bre Nolan breath he died at WV is a cap of Sigma to this day you know I made that film I won an Emmy for it in 2019 but we put it out in 2018 but I have and then that film was like it’s an educational film and so we

Worked with the family on it and the purpose was to save lives and create awareness and like get people to call 911 and you would think that Kappa Sigma would want to participate in that and help us we reached I can’t tell you how many times I reached out to Kappa Sigma

In fact I think the last time I spoke to someone there they told me to send a message to the family to move on and it’s it’s just utterly insane like and so my my opinion on fraternities has changed drastically because we spoke about this earlier I had a good

Experience in college I was a cette um and I admit I was hazed and I hazed others but it was nothing like I’ve seen today and I wasn’t tormented but it was never put in a dangerous situation um and I see dangerous situations more often than I see safe situations right

Now and people need to be aware of it and uh because the universities aren’t going to do anything you know my daughter is in college right now and you know the crazy thing is if you look at all these you know all these kids who have died you know whether it’s Tim

Piaza Penn State or you know um uh Nolan bur at WBU or Adam Oaks at VCU or you know Tucker hips at uh at Clemson these aren’t some of these aren’t Fly by Night universities and so you know if my son was going to Clemson I would have an

Expectation that they’re going to keep them safe and they would never let any organization organize at the University that has a a track record or pattern of doing anything dangerous or anything illegal so the thing that fascinates me you can’t really name one one fraternity

Not one not te or sigf my fraternity not atto or Pike any of these guys every one of them everyone has multiple sexual assaults multiple drug uh you know crimes and charges m i mean dozens and dozens of Haz of incidents like there’s not one National paternity that had that

That is clean so why do these universities still allow them like I would if I was a university president I’d be like great I’ll let you guys organize you can have a chapter here when you quit the [ __ ] when you figure out how you’re going to keep your people safe because

You know what the irony of this is this is a great um example you know now all this there’s all this [ __ ] going on with Bowen right now right and remember a year and a half ago when the the first issues they have with the 737 Max 8s

They grounded them because the one crashed well this is this is as crazy as kids are dying in these schools they clearly don’t have it under control so they know because Hazen has gotten worse there’s more incidents of Hazen right now and it’s not because we’re more aware

Because of social media no it’s far worse than it ever was and they keep investing money in Hazen prevention they have parents come speak to the kids they put them through workshops none of it’s working none of it and and if it is working then we’re really in trouble

Because without that it would be really bad but it’s super bad already now like kids are really having a hard time and they have no idea how to [ __ ] control this but yet they’re continuing to fly the planes so can you imagine if like the CEO of United came out and said yep

We know another bow and plane’s gonna crash this week but we’re gonna keep [ __ ] flying them anyway I they kind doing that but I mean it’s like collateral damage like they know that another kid’s on you know probably gonna die here soon they know that they have no control over their

Greek life uh these fraternities are running a muck they’re acting like gangs there’s no way to control them and uh you know and and then even when they do take action like you know at WVU WVU Gordon G uh suspended or he expelled seven paternities and what did they do

They hired lawyers and they filed a a federal lawsuit against the university for their right to organized under the Constitution then they started operating Rogue and they formed their own independent you know IFC and so boy that’s a great way to teach your kids out of respect authority say no don’t

Worry about we don’t care if the school wants you or not we’re going to let you to continue to operate that makes seem even worse when they go underground and Rog then they feel empowered because they feel protected and now like the rebels and then they just step it up

Even more and the boys that are going those fraternities are now being literally tortured and there’s all sorts of [ __ ] going on like one of the fraternities that suspended at WVU I’ve been following for a couple years and they’re in my series I know they’ve been dealing

Cocaine out of there I know they’ve had you know several several sexual assaults that I’ve gotone unreported i’ spoken to a couple of the I mean it’s just insane and I’ve actually I have spoken to Administration I have spoken to the police chief there and the police chief

Was like well we need proof I’m like what do you I’m giving you details it’s not my job to do your job do your job like but unfortunately a university you know so this expectation if you send your kid to school that every organization at that school is above

Board and operating properly is [ __ ] and PE parents need to be aware what’s happening and um because the University president is beholden to the donors and the majority of donors at these big schools are were ex- Greek and so they’re the ones that that donate the money every year and so they’re never

Going to challenge those people because without the money schools don’t operate well I want to ask you a question then I want to come back to that because you you and I spoke about something before we went live um and Adam I we didn’t talk about this part but I’m just

Curious when you’re studying Greek life and and you’re seeing these issues with aming and the dangers that are going along with it um are you seeing the same type like what are you seeing with sororities is there anything so sorores are a little different sori’s Haze um it’s a little

They they they push a little more on the mental thing Than Physical I mean there are some that do physical activity but the reason why saris actually we don’t see as many incidents most sari well actually almost all saris have what’s called hous mothers so if your daughter

Was in a sari even when if you go visit your daughter and you go to the sari house you’re not even allowed to enter where the living quarters are you have to stay in the living room they sign you in saris are actually the houses are run

A lot more effectively and safer um those girls are protected you know and and boys are a little crazier but you know you put 50 or 60 boys in a house alone with no supervision and drugs and alcohol what the hell you think’s going to happen you don’t have that problem

With saris because they don’t put 50 or 60 girls alone there’s always an adult there supervising and there’s a different kind of culture um and you know historically um you know boys and fraternities have been a little more rambu anyway and a little more aggressive um but they do Haze a lot of

It’s mental they’ll Circle the fat on the body I mean a lot there’s a lot of girls like I uh Lucy tayor works with us she has the snap podcast you know she had a horrible time as Alpha as an alpha fee at University of Maryland she’s very

Outspoken about it um you know there were things done to her are affecting her rest of the life so you know it does happen uh we’re not seeing the deaths although we did see um we did see a death a couple years ago Gracie demit

Died uh she was at Emory college um and I I she was being forced to like drift a car I think she was uh Kappa F ala I think she was but anyway but that was like the first female Hazen related death that we saw in a long time so you

Know the majority of the deaths and the Really barbaric stuff is coming from the the the boys though and so right now and by the way Hazen’s everywhere Hazen’s on the soccer team in middle school it’s in the football team it I mean it’s in the military it’s at the police I mean

Hazen’s everywhere and so right now though my focus is on fraternities and when I get done with fraternities then I will probably move on do it and show it elsewhere because it’s a form of buling and it’s everywhere and social media just [ __ ] blew it up it it was like a

Nuclear bomb and then you know and then someone actually pressed the button to explode the bomb door in you know Co when kids came back from Co it was like it just exploded um every day I see [ __ ] that I’m like and I and by the way I

Thought every I always say I think I’ve Seen It All by now holy moly I you know I I don’t know about you but like if we were pledging together and I want to be in a pater how B I wanted to if they

Told me that I had to eat a bucket of your [ __ ] I probably would say I’m out I want have nothing to do with this I be thank you it’s completely insane how far they’re pushing these guys and uh and by the way that’s dangerous to do and like it’s just the

Stuff they’re having people do and then why would you want to be brothers with someone that makes you do something like that I mean you know and then you know the biggest thing is you know we go into dakot of silence really big time and protect the house and you know most of

The boys that I’ve covered whether it’s Adam Oaks or um even Tucker hips who fell off a bridge um or Nolan bir Gary dersley these boys would be alive today if someone just called 911 the fact that they don’t call 911 they try to cover it

Up they wait that’s why these boys are dead and um so the first thing I always try to teach people just by awareness like [ __ ] your fraternity if someone’s in need to help call 911 i’ like there’s never a point in my life where I would

Ever put a club or organization I was in ahead of someone’s life life and and that’s that’s how things have changed uh you know if it’s a Brotherhood you’re supposed to have your brothers but the way these fraternities kind of operate is that you know if you get in trouble

So we’re brothers until something happens to you if something happens to you you’re on your own so why I think even Riley strain same thing you know it’s very textbook Delta Kai to me um you know he went missing and they’re like [ __ ] it he’s on his own we don’t

Want the fraternity to get snagged up this because that’s like I mean I I don’t know what how they can excuse their behavior because I would have thought they would have been down there they would have rented blood hounds I don’t know what where the fraternity was yeah and there’s money with the

Fraternity their parents could have had you know there’s ways that they could have you know had a place at least where a handful of them stay and search but again I I agree with you and it’s and then it become you know with my experience you know I would not you know

If I you know tell my kids or tell anybody hey you should join a fraternity but when you look at you know the stories that you’re sharing you look at strain and like the minute something happens you’re abandoned you’re not part of this you’re not their brother anymore

You’re just gone you know on the Adam Oaks case now Adam Oaks was a delter Kai okay um I got to work with some of the boys who actually hazed him to death so in lie of jail time the Oaks family I worked with the Oaks family and there

Was alternate sentencing where they uh the boys were um uh they went through a program where they apologized to the family but then they worked with us and they participated in a film I made called Death of a pledge and then they went on a tour and we went and spoke at

Universities and one of them one of the kids who did is his kid Jason who was the president who was the president of alai at the time and wonderful kid and when I when I inter when I interviewed him for the film and even after I talked

To him about it you know he had his National adviser who he spoke to all the time you know he was the president and um and he said that when um when Adam died that morning called his National advisor you know saying Adam Oaks died

And you know here is supposed to be your Mentor the office supposed to have your back like because he’s calling him like what do we do uh Adam Oaks is dead and the guy says to him you’re G to hang up the phone you’re going to delete the

Website all social media channels and take the letters off the house and never call me again from this point forward Delta Kai doesn’t exist at VCU and I looked at him I said how’s that Brotherhood treating you now something goes wrong they have a tragedy with one of their brothers and then the

National just ditches their ass that’s that their chicken shits at Delta Kai um you know they’re supposed to be harboring a safe environment and and promoting Brotherhood and and instead they just left all those boys and this whole thing the the common thing with all these fraternities is oh it’s a bad

Bunch of kids okay well then if that’s the case and you guys for over 50 years there’s been a fraternity death up until the past year or two there’s deaths almost every there was a death for like 50 years straight but if you want to

Tell me it’s bad seeds so if you guys have if your organizations are attracting these bad seeds and it keeps happening over and over again well maybe you should change the way you run your damn organizations um and you know this [ __ ] happens so you know that it’s a it’s a

Potentially lethal um situation if one of your um if one of your you know members is bad and put in one of these situations it could lead to someone’s death so I would think that puts more of a responsibility on the on these Nationals they’re they’re very aware of

What happens when a bad seed then gets in and yet they do not they haven’t done anything to change the way they recruit and they haven’t really done anything even the way they train people about Hazen it’s the same [ __ ] over and over again and nothing nothing against some

Of the things that are done but in I I I don’t think that the solution is with the boys I have yet to meet a bad kid I’ve met Now do of kids that were involved in Hazen incidents that resulted in a death and I honestly

Can say I haven’t really met a bad kid no one intended to hurt anybody but you got to remember the male brain isn’t fully developed till 25 so you’re going to make bad decisions when you’re 19 2021 and the you know the adults in the room the people running these

Organizations why do they consistently get let off the hook so I don’t know about you but if you’re going to send your kid to school and they want to join an organization where no one in the administration at the top has any kind of liability that if your son dies at a

Fraternity that you can’t touch any of the people that make these bad decisions that put him there even though now we know Delta Kai had Adam Oaks died three years ago so they know that these situations result in a in deaths and yet they continue to allow the fraternities

To operate the same way so why on Earth would you want your kid to join Delta Kai and now you know you throw in on how they acted in Riley strain’s case you know know I I’m sorry if he was on a soccer team they were there on a

Tournament and and a member went missing you know damn well that soccer team would have been every absolutely so that’s you had people who didn’t even know him looking for him you had people who didn’t even know him trying to find him and his own Brothers weren’t there

And I know people were [ __ ] on me online like oh his brothers were were were more you know terribly upset I’m like well then where are they there’s nothing that anybody could say to me to have made me go home nothing and if the cops were out there with like

With with search and rescue teams and helicopters and drones and blood hounds and Camp you know maybe you know I would say okay I’m gonna let them do their job but as you know they weren’t they weren’t they weren’t if they were then the Tik tocker wouldn’t have found the

Debit card and then they and as you know they didn’t rope off that area they didn’t search that’s the most bizarre thing so I understand before they found the card They didn’t know what they’re dealing with now they they have evidence that maybe something bad happened and

They still didn’t treat it like a crime scene we’re all walking around down there we’re all you were did you go I went down the hill we’re all like trampling all over what could potentially be a crime scene they didn’t do a damn thing to to to do anything to

Preserve evidence or try to figure out what happened because you know why a story of a kid too drunk and falling off a hill that that will come and go and that’s not bad for yeah that’s easy that’s easy we don’t to do anything that works for the

Fraternity it works for um it works for um uh the city and maybe to a certain respect it maybe even works for the family because they can you know start to have closure and maybe move on but I just find it so hard to believe after spending so much time

There you know that there wasn’t something else to it that’s all I I I just you know and seeing the way the fraternity operates because that that was the weird thing okay we um we’re all looking around each other it’s been over 10 days and we’re and like the

Fraternity like you would have thought they would have got more aggressive and the same thing happened up in Idaho right um like the fraternity didn’t cooperate at all like and now we know they had nothing to do with it what what why the hell like cled up they’re so worried

About getting their Fraternity in trouble or being implicated in something that they just they don’t they don’t have it in them to do what’s right and that’s what’s alarming of what’s happened in the Greek system today um they literally are acting like they’re [ __ ] the mafia uh in fact I have an

FBI agent in my thing saying he sees a higher sense of loyalty and a stronger Code of Silence with attorneys these days and he does the blood scripts Mexican Mob or the Russian mob or Italian mob which is crazy because if you see something in the Russian mob or

Italian mob and you talk about it you’re your family’s going to get butchered but like you know if something happens at a fraternity and you talk about the paternity your family’s not getting killed and so I I don’t understand how much allegian especially pledges how much Allegiance could you have to

Something that you’re not even really a part of yet like in the I’ll give you a great example Tucker hips he died in 2014 at Clemson it’s going to be 10 years this year he went on a pledge run he was a sigap in my fraternity um very suspicious circumstances but he 30

People went on the Run 29 came back the 29 that came back claimed they didn’t see a thing they don’t know what happened to him the 911 call the next day is extremely suspicious um who the hell calls 911 saying did you find anybody by the side of the road um they

Found him dead in the bottom of the lake no one’s talked and you know and there was you know probably a couple hundred people that probably know what happened that night um you know the security camera footage of paternity coming back from around you don’t have audio but

They clearly were dout there’s a lot of conflicting stories but it’s a mystery what happened to them and despite there being $125,000 reward which I help raise and by the way 125,000 in that area of South Carolina you could buy a house with that that’s real money yeah you

Know now you got think some of these kids now are like 27 28 they have families now why won’t they give this family closure and that’s the other crazy thing at the time Hazen wasn’t a felony so even the the boys who had something to do with it even if they

Were came forward now they would just get probation and the civil cases are done they were older boys have already been sued so why not just give the family closure and move on and how could people do how cruel can they be to take that to their grave and not this family

Cindy hips just can’t move on so she knows that she wants to know what happened to her boy and these kids are so selfish that they just will play stupid and by the way in that case same thing they all lawyered up no one talked to the cops I’m sorry like especially if

I was a pledge I’m not even a brother yet if something happened to one of my brothers and he died I’d be the first one at the police station I mean give me like 100% someone lost their life like why are you being to something that you

Weren’t even part of even sigep they chipped into the reward sigep Nationals saying hey we want to know what happened if you did this or know who did it come forward and for whatever reason these kids are sworn to secrecy and taken to their grave I I I don’t understand that

And so yeah and the reason I’m shining from rooftops is because you won’t hear that story when you know when your mom or dad is looking into your you go to college and you want to join a fraternity your parents aren’t going to find that story online and the biggest

Reason why is and this is why the system’s broken do you ever hear the clear act I have not so the clear Act is a is a is is a bill that was passed after June clear um her daughter was killed at Lehigh University and then they had a

Federal bill passed that reports campus crime so and it’s a thorough Bill and everything’s on that thing from murder to rape to theft to burglary manslaughter even incest is on the list they left Hazen enough okay so every University in the country is federally mandated to do a clear report and Report

Campus crime I think quarterly and you know it does affect their funding from the Department of Education but they have to make public what happens at their universities right for whatever reason Hazen was left off that bill all right so there is no legal obligation for a university or for a fraternity to

Publicize that they had a Hazen incident so if there’s a Hazen incident they they usually the way it usually happens is inter they usually hand it internally with a if there’s a police force at University they hand internally and then they usually do it with the um with the

Paternal you know they have their own court and they it’s very hush hush it’s never made public Unless somehow the Press finds out about it but even then most people don’t know the final outcome and you’ll never find any record of any incident ever being on the University

Website or the fraternity now in some states like South Carolina after Tucker died the Tucker of transparency Act was passed and now in Virginia Adams law was passed we have Matt’s law in California but most States it’s very hush hush so now they’re trying to get a bill passed

And these P my movie I follow these parents on this journey now and in the case of like Julie and Gary dersley they’ve been they started out by having this thing called the Rea but now it’s called stop campus Hazen act and what they they’re trying to do is almost like

An extension of the clear act it’s just transparency it’s a vanilla nonpartisan bill that just puts transparency so if there’s a Haz in death or a haen incident at a university the university is not allowed to cover it up they have to publicize it and this [ __ ] thing

Has been kicked around now for almost nine years I have everybody from Amy kachar to Lindsey Graham on camera promising the families they’re going to get a past here we are no [ __ ] bill kids are dying Adam Oaks would be alive today if that bill was passed four years

Ago like they said it would and you know and now we find out that most of the people that are not you know supporting this thing we’re all Greek and so they don’t want the system to change they don’t want to talk about what happens

Give this so we before we got on um you told me some of the stats with our legislative body and uh the the percentages of Greek would you mind sharing that with the listeners it shifted a little more now it’s a little more even but it was like seven six or

Seven years ago a 1.81 1% of the Senate 77% of Congress and 64% of Supreme Court Justices were Greek um so that that that might have been the problem back then because the people who actually create the laws were all Greek and so they don’t want to go against the system um

That you know that they’re proud to be part of and I’ll be I’ll be honest with when I first started doing this I got involved in this because I went to West Virginia University um I was very proud of I I I really supported the school I

Love everybody there and they had a death with Nolan Burch and I remember um being at home in California one day and I saw it on Dat line and and I didn’t like the way the school was portrayed and I reached out to Gordon G asking how

I can help and we came up with the plan and I put money up in the school for money up and we created breed n and breed to to try to do bystand awareness but when I started realizing how deep this was that the lawmakers and then more importantly how the universities operate

That University presidents I mean I gave you a step before I find more startling than 81% of the Senate the biggest thing I find was is3 University presidents with their number one job is in 12 out of 13 told me raise money and it should be the safety of their kids you know

They are glorified politicians that go out and raise money and uh they’re beholden to their donors and and they can’t do anything to upset the donor base and in some schools you know like Vanderbilt and um Clemson you have an excess of 75 80% of the active donors that are Greek and so

What do you do how do you go against those people you know every time a university president tries to stand up to them they get annihilated and I think that’s what’s happening in Washington um the the Senators and because let’s face it you know I appreciate what she’s done for

The family she gives them an audience she meets with them consistently but we all know that Senator Casey or Senator Graham or Amy kobitar is one of the most powerful senators in in on the if she wants to get a bill pass especially a nonpartisan vanilla Bill

She can get that [ __ ] passed in a day she can walk across the hole go to the other side they could trade off on maybe gun rights whatever who [ __ ] knows but if she really wanted to pass a bill she knows how to push it through she’s

Been around long enough right and so why is this taking almost a decade um you know especially they they had the there was the end all end allh Act and the um reach act and they agreed to merg them about a year ago and they they were told

That by merging these bills it would be like hotlined or it would then definitely pass and that was like last like end of summer early fall and they had full like every families were excited and they thought this bill is finally going to get [ __ ] passed in

The fall and then fall came then winter came and now it’s spring and we’re going into an election there’s no way in [ __ ] hell anything’s getting pass Nal after the election which now here we are again they’re going to come up on almost 10 years trying to get Federal

Legislation passed to keep our kids safe and the Senators don’t care they uh but they can do a Tik Tok ban in four days they can’t get this done but in four days they can pass a Tik Tok ban yeah yeah so they’re more concerned about Tik Tock ban which is utterly

Insane than than than transparency at schools you know who in their right mind would be against a school having to report crimes on campus I I I I honestly don’t understand so one of the things I’m trying to do is I’m not trying to like and I get accused all the time of

Being anti-greek and I get into it once in a while I’m not anti-greek go ahead join a fraternity don’t don’t hurt people and don’t kill people and universities you have to be transparent like you can’t cover up crimes and like you know there’s even creepy [ __ ] like

You know and an Antonio Calis you know he they found him dead in the bottom of a Gorge at Cornell University you know the university is letting their internal police force handle that invest tigation they have no leads nothing you know when I heard the State Crime Lab offered to help them and

They said no like when there’s a fraternity related death at University they shouldn’t be allowed to investigate internally they should always have to have an an external organization come in because we know just like you said like a kid getting roof feed in downtown Nashville is very bad for tourism a

Fraternity related death is not only bad for the school but it’s also bad for the fraternity and there’s big money in fraternities you know hundreds of millions of dollar real estate um and fraternities don’t want to disrupt that system because that’s where the gravy train’s coming from so everybody

Participates to try to cover these things up and we do have clear evidence of coverups uh I have multiple universities that just turn they chose to turn a blind eye they don’t do anything I have one University I mean I’ll say their name Clemson has really done nothing in my opinion to support

Tucker hip’s family uh We’ve repeatedly asked them to do an interview Clemens the the president uh about Tucker’s case to try to help us find out what happened the family is repeatedly for 10 years now asked to meet with him and they just they for whatever reason uh he won’t do

It and it doesn’t make sense because the civil suits are over um why wouldn’t the university want to shot up from the rooftops to try to find out what happened to Tucker because they they want it to go away because they don’t want a family in Ames Iowa Google oh my

Son wants to go to Clemson and Google in Clemson University and it comes up with a kid mysteriously dying there that’s bad for business and when you know the really screwed up thing is I don’t know about you but I would feel better about sending my kid to a school where someone

Died especially if the University was going out of their way to try to fix things and you know agree you can’t really these days you can’t get away from stuff with social media and stuff so I just don’t know why they continue to turn a blind eye and just ignore

Things things just like you know Delta Kai I don’t know what the reason it was even now um you know that some of those brothers can’t are pro probably have some of the same questions that you and me have and the other people who are

Down on that site have and why are they being so silent why is the univers why is the why is Delta Kai fraternity saying respect our privacy there’ll be no comments at this time why are they not being very vocal about the fact you know maybe maybe maybe one of them

Agrees that maybe something happened someone was roofi why aren’t they saying something I I I don’t understand it and how he was if they drink with him and they’ve been friends with him they know how he acts when he drinks and so if he was rued and he was acting off they know

Say one of the brothers was it you that said talk to a brother and went on spring break yeah he went on spring break but I was talking to him how weird is that you’re your brother’s missing after a week goes by something clearly isn’t right then do you go on spring

Break yeah I mean it’s it didn’t sit well with me I mean how it could sit well with anybody so again like you know I I I lost my temper the other night on the bridge but it was incredibly emotional being there right and it was

It was hard to be there and like to only see volunteers like the Cajun Navy and us like where the [ __ ] were the cops but I guess the cops can’t really do much or maybe you know by the way technology days we don’t know they could they could

Have the whole thing on video and they could be working behind the scenes but the brothers aren’t aware of that why weren’t they there on that River where the cun Navy was I or at least paying for it or hire like it you know Delta Kai has millions of dollars in the bank

Spend 50 Grand and try to find one of your brothers and bring him home to his mother I agree the mother went on and said oh the fraternity Brothers loved them okay well why weren’t they there looking for your boy I mean I I just you know and you

From what I’ve known It’s just sad to what’s happened the Greek life you know I I feel like the people who are running Greek life are the most irresponsible people in the world and they don’t want to uh you know acknowledge the fact and embrace the fact that times are

Different we need to run this run run the system differently these these days because it’s different you know no I look when I was 18 19 I don’t I hated when old people would tell me oh well times were different then but you know what when we went to college times were

Different when our parents went to college but they’re really different now I mean social media has really changed [ __ ] and here’s the other problem that you have this is why what scares me about the future we do know that uh we’re dealing with a team Mental Health

Crisis and it was exasperated by um by covid and so we have a lot of kids in the key years where the brain develops where you learn how to deal with everything from let down to taking care of yourself to even stupid [ __ ] like learning how to do laundry you know that

13 to 17 um these we have a lot of kids the generation in college now were covid kids and they were locked up at home and then they also didn’t interact with their friends so it’s hard enough these days in the social media world to develop social skills because they don’t

Know how to even have a conversation because they’re on cell phones but when they couldn’t even be in the same room together kids are now going off to college totally unequipped to deal with any kind of let down or failure and then they get put in a situation where

They’re putting a [ __ ] lineup by a fraternity that’s that’s a disaster are waiting to happen you can’t deal with kids we can’t follow rituals and stuff that are archaic like kids today aren’t equipped to deal with that type of pressure and it’s a scary thing they’re

Not only doing things like they used to do years ago when kids aren’t but they’re actually making it worse now because they’re trying to and they all videotape it which is insane because some places there’s no risk like it’s like a badge of honor when we started

Doing protect the house we were reaching out to kids I all these interns we reach out to kids on like Y Yak and Reddit and everywhere and they’re like proudly sending us videos of them torturing other kids because you want to know why in most of the states it’s not even a

Crime it’s not even a misdemeanor like you can legally Haze someone in Alaska and and you could brag about it and post it on social media and not only not only is it not illegal and you can’t get in trouble as long as someone’s trying to

Join a fraternity um but it does even violate the terms of use on Instagram or or Facebook so I guess the moral story is if you want to run a criminal organization you want to hurt people just start a fraternity and you could do whatever the [ __ ] you want in some places because

It’s like oh I was hazing him for membership that had nothing to do with the money he owed me that was because he wants to be in my fraternity and like oh okay no problem I mean it’s literally that crazy at this point and so you know

I I don’t understand it um you know the kids are participating in things that are resulting people dying you you know there’s a crime on the book it’s a it’s a it’s a great crime it’s called manslaughter and unfortunately there are lots of people in prison who are great people right

Manslaughter is for good people who make bad bad mistakes unfortunately if you do something that results in someone’s death you should see Jael time and you know and that’s what manslaughter is I mean so the crazy thing is if you and me went out drinking while we were in

Nashville and I drove home drunk and you died I would certainly go to prison right but for whatever reason if I premeditate and I plan to take you back to the fraternity house and waterboard you and shock your nuts and then and then put you in a cold dungeon and throw

Hot water and honey on you and then shock you and then you died oh nope that’s Hazen that that’s a that’s a that’s a fine and 30 days M you know probation I I I I don’t get it something’s change something’s got to change um it’s not it’s not changing so

That that’s part of the problem and you know these guys have to stop the [ __ ] and um you know I don’t think it’s the kids I we got to focus on the people on the top the people that are running these organizations you know people need to reach out to people like

Jud Horus from the Nic uh the Nic is an organization where a lot of the Nationals are belong of we need to start letting them know that we need them to put pressure on the members of organizations to change the way they do things um that let’s talk about that

Let’s talk about that for a second because we’re getting we’re getting close on time with it what a lot of my listeners a lot of my followers love to help impact and AFF change so what specifically can they should they do to try to start making a difference with

This and putting pressure on people number one I think the first thing we could do I think the most powerful thing that’s going to change things is transparency because as long as the people who run these organizations are allowed to hide and as long as they’re protected from the truth coming out it’s

Very easy for them to just blame bad kids or you know and so I think that getting um the the stop campus Hazen Act pass is essential so they could reach out to their local Congressman or Senator and say we want the um uh the stop campus Hazen Act pass show your

Support for it because you know one of the things that really frustrates me is a lot of people around me are like you’re still working in Hazen how many films have you done like it’s not even that big of a problem I it frustrates me that I hear that that consistently it’s

Not that big of a problem I think it’s actually a much bigger problem than anybody knows we don’t hear about it because the system is set up in a way that protects the people who do it and they don’t have to be transparent so transparency is probably the first big

Thing that can really [ __ ] the system up the other thing is um you know we should try to get creative with our bills like you know if you want to open up a bar in Nashville um you have to have a liquor license so you can get a liquor license

For your corporation but guess what Justin has to be on that liquor license personally so anything that’s considered a high-risk business in some states whether it’s a shooting range par uh Power sailing hangliding uh skydiving a bar high-risk businesses when you get licensed for them you can have the license under your

Corporation but there has to be an individual responsible so if there’s any kind of negligence that person goes down and guess what it works I’ve own a bar before and when I know my ass is online like in California I could be at home sleeping and if my

Bartender over serves someone and that person dies I go to jail all right so it makes you run a very responsible business well you know what imagine if all the the the people in the Executive offices of the these fraternities were their asses were on the line if

Something happened watch how quick they change things so we should try to get legislation passed where there’s individuals responsible um so and watch how quick the nonset stops if if all these [ __ ] people that run these fraternities like wind Smiley who runs atto if all of a sudden if something happened in atto

Fraternity house and wh Smiley can personally go to jail for it watch how quick everything stops in a day they don’t care right now because they’re Untouchable none of them the the brothers get sued and the and the brothers parents so if your son’s in a fraternity and and someone dies in that

Fraternity you your son doesn’t get sued you get sued they go after your home owners insurance policy the national has coverage and usually they just settle for the max that the insurance comp to pay and the national never ends up having the right of check at all at all

The insurance company pays for their C their their defense and then the settlement and none of the people that work in the fraternity who are very well aware of what’s Happening ever are personally H viable that has to change we can’t allow our kids to go in these

Situations and and the people who are in charge of them have no life ability whatsoever not even civil forget criminally and you know Gary diversely case in 2007 it was one of the first times where they had three University administrators be charged and then they dropped all charges but like that was a

Groundbreaking thing and I think that had needs to happen more right now I think um especially if you can prove that the University was aware that this act these type of activities are happening there and they continue to allow them happen that results in someone’s death well they should go down for

Manslaughter and that’s why I continue to fight because I think we right now at our University system in the country we have a tick and Time Bomb kids keep getting hurt kids are being mentally tortured and then there some are dying and no one’s really doing a damn thing

About it with the entire system is set up to well the reason happens is because there’s bad kids no how about it’s bad [ __ ] running these organizations and they all know who they are and I hope they’re watching this they have no business running a fraternity because

They they think you know in the movie Animal House grown men that are living in the past that have walk around with their [ __ ] letters on their shirt I don’t walk around with a sigap shirt on that was my that was my college Years I joined a fraternity to go to parties and

Get laid okay and the Brotherhood thing back then was real so you know what I I do have some lifelong friends with it but these people that live in that world their whole [ __ ] life and are grown men and encourage these kids to kind of party the way they did when they know

Damn well kids aren’t doing keg parties anymore they’re they’re doing all sorts of drugs and they’re drinking hard alcohol and you know [ __ ] lineups were bad enough in 1990 lineups now are just flat out torture and like barbaric Behavior and the fact they allow that to happen and they’re not being criminally

Prosecuted when someone dies I don’t get it you know someone made the decision at Delta Kai from what we’re being told I I’d love to find out if this is true or not if someone actually did tell those boys not to talk to the media and not go look for Riley

And that they should be hung from a tree that is so wrong I I’d love to find out if that’s true or not because if that’s true that’s just unbelievable that that really shows you where Brotherhood is today in 2024 I think that you know obviously I

Don’t know we it’ll be hard it would be much harder to prove um that they told them not to go search but I think the action speak loudly it the action the silence screams that they were told to shut up because you have that many people that many

People that were here somebody was close to Riley at least one person was close and even they’re not saying anything someone said his girlfriend he was only dating a girl for like 30 days she stayed back and looked for him but the fraternity Brothers some guys that

Knew him for years they didn’t stay back yeah he grad I I I don’t get it you know and uh I I just you know people like us that that was the saddest part with us so that night when I did that one interview

I was so worked up because you know I it it felt very real when we saw the Cajun Navy out on that island and they were all looking you know when you saw the Kadabra dogs you realized how serious this was and I’m like these are volunteers that where did they come up

From they were like in Alabama or so where’ they come from new orle I think Louisiana I think where the hell like I just wow I I I just would have thought like Delta Kai would have been all over organized and volunteers to come out and

I mean what’s the case you’re looking at now there’s tons of volunteers out there looking right Sebastian Rogers but that’s become a cluster in and of itself that’s a different yeah usually when someone’s missing everybody comes together right and so again like you know I challenge

Like if if if uh Riley was on the soccer team or the chess club the chess club would have been there looking for him 100% And so this is what people need to especially parents they need to be aware of you know when kid when their son go

Comes them and says I want to join a fraternity even if they were in a fraternity back when they were in college it’s much different now uh and that’s what’s really sad and you know I I found it very sad like I’m not anti fraternity at all I’ve become it because

I think the system is probably too broken to be fixed and I’d love to be proven wrong I would love it for you know these fraternities to get together and make it a safer environment and and shut me up but as long as they continue

To operate it the way they are right now I’m never going to shut up you know I’m working with multiple Charities I’m going to make [ __ ] a few films a year every damn year just to torture them rest of my life because I want the world

To know what’s going on it it’s such [ __ ] and um and they know it and they can’t hide it anymore and that’s the other crazy thing like usually like it’s law 101 if um if there’s a leaky faucet in a Lobby of a hotel and there’s proof we could prove that the general

Manager knew that that leaky faucet’s been there for a long time and people keep slipping and falling and then then someone slips and Falls you’re going to sue the hotel into the ice age for your broken back because they knew it was there and they didn’t do anything about

It why are we not suing fraternities into the Ice Age they know they have a problem with Hazen and they just keep settling with people for like their policy Maxes oh by the way the other funny thing to point out is more than half the fraternities

Are part of a group they own their own insurance company the irony of that to me is even crazi because can you imagine getting pulled over by a cop and they’re like licens and your insurance registration you whip this out and you give it to them the cops like

What’s that that’s my insurance card like what is this and be like that’s Justin’s Insurance officer I self-insured go [ __ ] yourself you can’t self-insure well guess what most of the attorneys are part of a group and they self-insure they because no one would cover them anymore they bought an

Insurance company and they now have own policies so right there I how could that even be legal like a Iris business should not be allowed to self-insure so they set the policy limits when they’re getting sued they’re like well we only have a million dollars in our policy

That’s it it’s like says who you like my kid’s dead and them it’s utterly them how that’s even legal and so there’s so many layers to this from the way things work in Washington to the the universities to how the Nationals run things to you know this just the

General attitude of of of Greek life at schools where it’s like the prisoners running the prison um [ __ ] needs to change and you know I think the only hope now because I I I crossed the line about a year ago where I’m not sure it

Could be fixed I think the only way to fix it is kind of what happened at Disneyland a few years ago they had um a death on the matorn um they thought there was just a defective track they shut it down and um they fixed it they open back back up

Again and guess what another car derail in the same place they couldn’t figure it out so you know what they did they shut the ride down for a couple years and they revamped the whole [ __ ] thing maybe Greek life needs to be shut down for a couple years and they need to

Revamp what it’s all about you know I’ll leave it at this I had a when I was at USC I followed this thing called abolished Greek life movement there Sigman new had like a bunch of sexual assaults all back to back and like a very short period of time and the

Students were so appalled by this tens of thousands of them came out and they went on row and they marched right and I remember talking a lot of these kids and they weren’t just upset at the fraternity a lot of them were upset about a lost opportunity there were a

Lot of great kids that were hoping to be part of Greek life there but they’re so mortified with what’s happening and that they don’t want to be part of it so I remember talking to a fraternity president and I was talking to another guy named Jud Horus at the Nic he said

Jud here’s the thing uh you guys are the worst businessman in the world because your entire business model is based on getting 30 to 40 new members the semester right and these are you know different people I could argue with you that if you stop the [ __ ] you stop

Torturing people that you would get a hundred new people a semester because there are far more kids that want to be part of this and not part of it so if you’re running a business maybe stop the horse [ __ ] and you know maybe your business would flourish you know in the

Adam Oak’s case Delta Kai was struggling to stay afloat at VCU they needed members Adam Oaks didn’t have the minimum require GPA and another member they they didn’t meet the GPA requirements so Delta Kai decided to make them underground pledges where they initiated them anyway which ultimately

Resulted in his death but they were initiating them making them members so they can get their dues even though they wouldn’t be official members and then when he got his GPA up maybe the next semester they were going to maybe lie and then then try to make him official

Brothers so because of Nefarious activity and because they’re such [ __ ] at DCU they ended up like they had to bring him in his underground pledge how about this just stop the nonsense stop torturing people and maybe your membership will flourish because I I don’t think gen zers today want want to

Go through that I don’t know if they want to eat each other’s [ __ ] or drink each other’s piss and let a carb get you know you know uh you know strapped to their nuts and get branded I I just honestly don’t know you know who the hell wants to put

Up with that and uh for whatever reason the guys in charge think that that’s what kids want they’re really out of touch and by the way as long as they’re never going to be heal personally viable it’s all fun and games for them care they don’t care and j z doesn’t give a

[ __ ] they will you know they don’t give a [ __ ] they won’t do it you know it’s interested in a world today where it’s very hard to hide Secrets it’s shocking to me that kids can die and then no one even like no one even like puts anything

Out on social media the fact that Cindy and Gary hips don’t know what happened to her son Tucker now we’re coming up on 10 years the fact that Kim and TJ bur they’re coming up on 10 years with Nolan you know they they know the outcome they have it on video

Of them D you know carrying his lifeless dead body and it opens up my film we show him dead they’re throwing him on the that so they know what happened like because they were there when he died but we don’t know what happened in the room

Off site no one has ever told him exactly what he drank what they did to him and the fact that no one has ever come forward to the family and said here’s exactly what happened because these families to get closure they just want to know what happened right like Natalie

Yeah and Vander slute she just wanted to know the truth but she’s been 10 years now she’s been fighting or more now right it’s been a long time she was miss5 and she finally got it last year I know he killed her killed her on the

Beach and so which we kind of all knew I mean it was kind of obvious for a long time what happened um but you know these parents can’t get any kind of closure and they can’t really move on and so but imagine not knowing but then the University where your kid died the

President won’t even acknowledge you the the fraternity is not doing [ __ ] to help you it’s just like it’s just a across the board it’s just horrible I mean you’re trying to get closure you’re still grieving you can’t even begin the healing process oh and then the worst

Part is after you deal with Barry and your son then you have to go through the Civil process and the Civil process is worth worth far worse than even dealing with the death of your son because the only way the fraternities can defend this [ __ ] is to somehow blame you that

You’re a bad parent why that’s why your kids’s dead not because they run a [ __ ] gang and and their members killed your son nope it’s your fault because your son had a beer when he was 16 in high school oh and by the way you

Don’t go to church no by the way you started birth birth control when you were 16 what that has to even do with anything but they mind [ __ ] the parents they they torture them in depositions and they break them down so hard that every family ends up taking a settlement

No one goes to trial with these fraternities because the mothers are so distraught that they don’t want to relive all that and they just take settlements and it’s the same game over and over again so no one has ever managed to really destroy these fraternities in court and they take they

Take these settlements because they’re so upset and they’re like they’re barely getting by like Linda and Adam Oaks right now Linda and Eric Oaks nicest people on the planet Linda some days can’t get out of bed she they’re going through the Civil process now it’s horrible for them and it’s what Delta

Kai and watch what happens I mean it’s not it’s not over yet but I mean I I got to tell you it’s disgusting the way they even they even handle these these civil cases um they need to accept responsibility you know and like and instead they they they they have cruel

Ways of Defending cases like I’ve never some of the depositions with some of the families I’ve dealt with you know some of the questions that were asked to them are like what what does that have to do with anything but they they try to flip

It on the parents and and that you and it breaks them down so it’s it’s when your son dies of a Hazen incident you are going to suffer for many years and then if you’re lucky look at the patas they’re going on seven years and they

Don’t even the civil case is even done yet they haven’t even started the Criminal part because they can’t do the criminal I’m sorry the civil case hasn’t started yet because they can’t they can’t start civil till the criminals done so they’ve been grieving for many years and it’s going to continue to go

And then if you’re lucky you know maybe in two years the patas can start to heal uh it’s just it’s like it’s a never- ending Nightmare and uh and then when people won’t even accept responsibility I I mean not even a sorry or you know we [ __ ] up nothing and the

CRA nutty thing is most families I deal with don’t have a meane bone in their body don’t want to harm any of these boys um don’t really hold grudges which really fascinates me on how they can be so forgiving when they haven’t even asked for forgiveness yet these kids are

Just I don’t know you know and so that so that’s what I so my job now is just to spread the word and hopefully my films keep making a difference and hopefully um we start to fix this [ __ ] up system because it’s I’ve never seen anything like this and uh you know it

Needs to go back to way it was and if it can’t go back it needs to be shut down and maybe you know the answer is we get rid of fraternity houses or the maybe start running fraternity houses like they do um sari houses where there’s legitimate third party supervisors there

I don’t know you know some responsible well I’ll say that this was very enlightening to me I didn’t know I mean even having been in a fraternity I didn’t know a lot of this stuff and I think that it’s it’s obviously an issue because look at the end of the day it’s

All about keeping Kids Safe a lot of these kids you know they’re leaving high school they’re going into college they’re trying to find themselves what they want to do who they want to be in the world like you said you’re for guys for most kids I think you know your full

Your frontal Lo’s not fully developed till you’re 25 so yeah you have good you have what’s probably not bad seeds you have good kids making bad choices based on an archaic system that has always been and from one generation one pledge class to the next just it just continues

Yeah so yeah and and you know and you know the good news is Jen ears are a little more opinionated so I challenge them to sit back and just all of a sudden to stop for a second and say wait a minute this is really

Stupid like I mean I thought some of the stuff I went through was dumb but it was really at the end of the day harmless stuff right I some of the stuff they’re doing now I just I’m shocked that they a even do it but B they’re not raising the

Alarm Bells because how that’s the other thing we probably have a fractured Brotherhood right um because if they’re torturing proves it I think how how close could you be that’s the other thing so the 200 Brothers with Riley well clearly maybe maybe maybe he went through tough [ __ ] like they can’t be

That close because they would have stayed so maybe did they Haze each other one stayed wow one one could have stayed not one out of 200 so yeah that that was that was shocking to me I honestly thought I was going to walk into like you know search teams all

These like they were going to be having another univer like the other thing is like Delta Kai National someone said they don’t have a Delta Kai at at Vanderbilt but if Delta Kai reached out to Pike and sigap and other fraternities the Greek syst the Greek to Greek saying

Hey can you help us try to find our brother you know the vanderbild Greeks would all gotten together to try to go find him they also have a list of alumni that live in Nashville Nashville’s a big I mean I bet you there’s hundreds of Delta Kai alumni in Nashville I I don’t

I mean again like if not more yeah you know they can sit here and [ __ ] on me for being so hard but you know what you know we none of you were there and so I just don’t see how that’s forgivable I don’t know how Riley’s parents are even

Okay with that like she made a comment to mother on how much the fraternity loved Riley well I don’t know you know Lou Than Words Dan I you the whole thing is weird to me so I just you know I um you know it’s a sad story um you know it’ll

Be interesting to see what happens as to autopsy plays out and you know they get tox toxicology back but um you know the aftermath there was handled really weird even the delay in calling the police that was a little the 911 call doesn’t it’s a little weird right and uh yeah it

Is screaming frantically if I was like 19 and my friend was missing I’d be like I would have been calling them like right away I wouldn’t be yeah you know and then the other weird like you know I again I’m not a cell phone guy I don’t

Know if this is you might know more of this than I do because you’ve covered so many True Crime cases but someone said the way the cell phone immediately went off with the last ping was suspicious because even if it went in the water it would have gradually died it would have

Stayed somehow would have like but the fact that he they said he had he had a lot of charge on his phone and then the phone the way it was abruptly shut off was either the only way for that is either to smash the phone in the bits or take the SIM card

Out so of them have E and A lot of those cards have eims now now like my phone doesn’t have a physical SIM card has an eim so the only other thing that you I could think of if it wasn’t it could have smashed to bits when he fell that’s

Possible because they’re glass but or he could have already have a crack phone but wouldn’t there be glass stand down there where the credit cards were and stuff that we would have found the phone right well not necess not necessarily especially if the phone was in his

Pocket which I’m guessing it I don’t know where the phone is I don’t think they found the phone they found his watch but like if he had already like how many times do you see people who walk around and the screen on their phone is already cracked and if he

Already had a cracked phone then that allows water to seep in and that could shut it down maybe and that’s but that’s all purely speculation I mean there’s nothing to prove that he did or he didn’t yeah and so you know I I just you know you would have thought after they

Found his body then they would have sent a dive team over to the area by where the credit C would see if the phone is Right does anybody even went down there I mean that’s shallow water I mean you can go down to tomorrow go in the water

See if to see if there’s a phone in there because that’s you obviously where you went in the water and that’s also that’s the other weird thing it you know Tucker hips they found him in water almost the same depth and his body was there 12 hours later it was just

Floating in the water it wasn’t even floating just like stuck there I I even if he went in the water there like they would have saw him the next morning I don’t know you know you know remember you don’t if you on that you look you would have saw him right there they

Didn’t look and he was a big guy he was six7 yeah and but didn’t did someone said rain that night or night before so maybe the river was was so was uh was more active I don’t know but you know it’s I just I’m kind of shocked how quick everybody’s just accepting what

Happened and I mean just whatever I’m not look the the cops may know what happened because there’s a lot of damn cameras around there that we didn’t see footage of true and they said there is more footage that shows more and whatever like you said parents and there was that one

Homeless guy that they want a question who took off the other day when they went to talk to him so who knows there could be something else going on but you know my whole thing is I was there solely you were there trying to find answers for the case I was there

Analyzing how Delta Kai is acting in this whole situation and um to me you know that says it all about what Brotherhood has become I just felt like you know um I I just expected more um that’s all I mean you know they can

Listen to you know I I don’t know at 19 or 20 I would never have listened to anybody of authority if my friend was missing I would have been hysterical in there trying to help find him yeah you expect that out of a Brotherhood right

And uh you know if we can drink each other’s piss we should definitely look at look for each other if one of us listen right I mean 100% and nobody showed nobody showed for him so I I just you know I saw that Brotherhood fall apart and other brothers took care you

Know when Adam Oaks died he was on the floor and they they forced him to chug a bottle of whiskey and then he passed out and they partied over him he was right on the floor like right next to the kitchen and if you watch death of a

Pledge that’s on YouTube it opens up with the with the body cam footage and you see we blurred it but you see Adam’s Body right on the floor so they were parting over him all night no one did anything to get him help they never checked his pulse they never anything so

They’re parting over a dead body that that just shows the brotherhood like I mean it’s just like and and they know better they go through haes and prevention they they they hear all these [ __ ] stories and it’s still no they don’t care it’s more about you know

Let’s let’s let’s have a good time don’t want to get away have good time you know which is crazy because I don’t know about you did you kill anybody in college I didn’t nope did you have a good time not one not one I had a I had

A great time I didn’t kill anybody I had a great time so we should be like you don’t need to torture anybody or kill anybody to have a great time so I don’t know why they think they have to go to these extremes and um you know so it is

What it is and uh you know so I’m not going to stop speaking out about it until [ __ ] changes and I want to help these parents I want to give them a platform like you should have all the parents on when our film comes out I can

Get you all the parents together you because they’re very real it’s raw emotion and um you know maybe if a kid doesn’t want to do it for themselves they’ll maybe stop being stupid because they don’t want that to happen to their parents like I would be mortified if my

Parents joined that club Club because I did something stupid and um a live stream we could do that as a live stream which would then get saved at the end so we could we can talk about that and arrange that yeah for this episode we’ll

We’ll wrap it up and I mean I appreciate you coming on and sharing this um it’s I mean people need to really like pay attention to what’s happening and really start looking into it and now that I now that I told you about it you’re just now

Now you’ll see it you’ll start seeing every day in the news more like look you know the past like month we’ve had University of Maryland sh Greek like down because pledges were getting tortured we had UVA stsu about to come public they just they just expelled like they shut seven fraternities down but

They expelled like 150 kids and they they lit a pledge on fire another one brandes I mean like this like crazy [ __ ] going on I don’t know what is going on like I mean it’s not normal that’s stadistic it’s crazy but it’s become the normal which is scary and how people you

Know and by the way University presidents that I’ve talked to they don’t want this but they can’t stand up to it they’ll lose their jobs and they’ll lose their money and they want help that’s what’s crazy about it I don’t I don’t know one University president that is down with this well

Maybe well I don’t know Jim Clement so may maybe you know the president won’t talk to me at Clemson but um almost every other university president I spoke to is like help we don’t know we don’t know what to to do um and so you know you’re they’re they’re literally held

Hostage by these money people yeah so that’s what’s going on in our schools today so uh maybe your maybe your son or daughter becoming a plumber is probably a better option at this point holy moly so but we’ll but we’ll uh but we’ll get this out there and I

Think that this has giv me some ideas for some videos as well and then um you know once we launch it this episode I can share it with you and you can share it with your follow if you’d like as well and I’ll give you you know there’s

Some clips from protect the house that I can give you if you want to you know show some clips you know what I’m talking about these these parents you know it’s pretty startling what’s going on and uh I can even send you video some hazing videos that kids sent us you’ll be like

Are you freaking kidding me right now like I mean can do we can blow the we can blow the cover right off of that I’m fine with that let’s do it I’m here for it meanwhile everybody should know Justin owns some badass Airbnb and Pigeon Forge and

G Pigeon Forge when it sleeps 10 I like you have the claw machine and everything that one that one’s in a great location too I mean phenomenal location I mean yeah feel free promote promote my airbnbs as much as you want promote my books that’s totally fine too go go for

It because this now become my full-time gig Kyler we get Johnny Depp to go there for you so they they well I mean then I’m going too but uh anyway well thank you so for coming on and I definitely want to have you back for quiet on a

Discussion about quiet on the set yeah you know we’ll do too for you know I I I’m you know I’m gonna watch it this week I I’ll I’ll text your email let you know my thoughts because I I definitely need to see it that’s a whole other show again very much like fraternities

Hollywood turned a blind eye and kept quiet about it for years because they don’t want to [ __ ] with these guys that were making all this money you they don’t want to interfere in the money machine they don’t want to be the bad guy that’s exactly what happened in Hollywood that’s what’s happened in

Fraternities right now everybody’s turning a blind eye well before before we go I don’t want to give a total spoiler alert on this but I will tell you there there was a dialogue coach named Brian pek and he is the one who basically raped Drake Bell sexually

Assaulted him and then after his prison sentence Disney hired him as a sex offender well Adam adah Badgley who was the student advisor uh worked at Ryder University who was originally charged with a crime in Gary dersley Jr’s death uh ended up getting fired by Ryder and

Then she got by another University for the same job role there you go so I mean it’s like you know you you lost your job because a kid died you were criminally charged although it was dropped but you still you were responsible and someone died and then someone puts you in the

Same job role somewhere else in fact almost every Greek adviser has been at a school actually I don’t know one major school that hasn’t had Hazen incidents it’s you know I I I got into it with the N I like three weeks ago they they did these Nic

Awards and they they gave some awards to a couple schools that have terrible track records with Hazen and I’m like are we honoring them because they’re doing good job or because they donate they they contribute the most money to the Nic which I think I know the answer to

That uh but ladder you know you shouldn’t be giving rewards out to Greek advisers at schools if there there’s Haze I don’t care if they’re well-intentioned you know there’s that’s like a participation trophy either you win or you don’t if if there if you’re to had a Greek life at a school and

There’s kids getting hazed you shouldn’t be you shouldn’t even have your [ __ ] job much much less an award and so I just it blows my mind and so but yeah all let’s definitely catch up again you know and uh you know and you know hopefully your viewers you know now look

Into all the stuff that’s going on and uh you know Google Tucker hips Google Adam o Google Gary divers J Google Nolan B Google Jim Tim Piaza Google Antonio Calis you know Andrew coffee oh we’ll do videos on them we’ll do videos shorter shorter videos so people can see those

And at least get you know yeah a text of what it is because I’m sure they don’t know about it no that because because again the the schools don’t have to publicize it so they bury it yeah that’s why all all right brother I I appreciate it thank you for coming

On and um yeah we’ll see you guys next time yeah thank you so much Justin

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