Welcome to the new Agee Masonic podcast a podcast dedicated to the new age magazine predecessor to the Scottish right journal on this podcast we take a deep dive into the articles of the history people and lessons of Freemasonry as written in the New Age magazine and their pertinence to both
Everyday personal and Masonic life hosted by Brothers Maynard Edwards 32nd degree kcch Matt Bowers 32nd degree and Chris Ry 3 second degree kcch articles from The New Age magazine read by Matt Bowers and brought to you by the Supreme Council of the Scottish right Southern jurisdiction mother Supreme Council of the
World welcome to the new age Masonic podcast I’m mayard Edwards along with brother Chris ruy and brother Matt Bowers so we got two KC’s myself and Chris and one 32nd degree Master of the royal secret in the house discussing an article from the new age Journal which was the predecessor to the Scottish
Right journal and it was published from 1904 until the mid 80s and what we do is we bring an article out of the mothballs and we read it we have Matt who’s the voice of the Scottish right Journal podcast read it with his Golden dulet
Tones and then we kick it around for a few minutes and and Talk Amongst ourselves so good day brother ruy how are you I’m well how are you doing I’m pretty well brother Matt how about yourself doing well thank you how about you very good very very good our
Resident historian brother Chris Ry before we hear this um this is about Napoleon and Freemasonry so uh what says you just to to kick things off regarding uh regarding the little general as it were so Henry Wrigley Evans who is a 32nd degree kch at the time that he wrote this
Article um basically posits was Napoleon bonapart a Freemason and uh this is I think uh I want to say like five or six pages he dives into a little bit of the history trying to pull up anything that he can find any associations brings in the principles and the values of
Napoleon um look I mean Napoleon was a controversial figure for all the good things that maybe people believe he did he certainly did not so great things I think Evans is like take all that aside uh and is there a possibility that he was a Mason were the things that he did
Masonic in nature were there any principles and values and so this is one of those articles you know Mard you’ve seen dozens of or hundreds of them probably of here’s a famous person was this person a Freemason and what does that mean for Freemasonry so right without further Ado
Brother Matt why don’t you kick off reading of the article and then we will chat about it after the fact Napoleon the first and Freemasonry by Henry ridgley Evans 32nd degree KC the only true conquests those which awaken no regret are those obtained over ignorance Napoleon the to the French
Institute was Napoleon bonapart a Freemason I believe that he was though I am not aware of any record contained in the archives of the grand Orient of France showing that the great emperor was ever invested with the degree of The Craft despite this lack of documentary evidence on the subject I still maintain
My opinion and shall give my reasons for such for the benefit of the members of The Mystic Tha a few years ago in the report of the Grand Master of Belgium the Learned comp davela there was published a statement to the effect that after the disastrous
Defeat of the French army at waterl that were found among the Imperial baggage abandoned on the field of battle a rose qua apron and Cordon which relics are now in the possession of the Grand Lodge of Belgium what was Napoleon doing with the regalia of a knight of Rose qua 18th
Degree of the ancient and accepted Scottish W if he were not an initiate into the order evidently he expected to enter Brussels in Triumph and wear his apron and Cordon of the Rose qua at some of the functions of the fraternity possibly there was a traveling Lodge and
Chapter with the Grand Army Army there is an old French work on the history of masonry in the Scottish right Library Washington DC which shows Napoleon in the anti- room of a French Lodge giving the grip and Whispering a password to the guard at the door there is one thing
Certain Napoleon was favorably disposed toward Freemasonry he influenced the grand Orient sufficiently to have his brother Joseph made Grandmaster with keris as Deputy he encouraged his Marshals and Generals to join the order nay and Kellerman were members it is hardly to be supposed that the great emperor who made it his business to
Become acquainted with everything that went on in Paris and was so aily informed by fuche and his wonderful secret police was ignorant of what transpired in the Masonic Lodges of the capital that is nonsense it is more than probable that Napoleon at some time subsequent to his elevation to the
Throne had been made a Mason on site as had been done in English-speaking countries when the exigencies of the occasion required it but why the suppression of all formal record of the fact in The Archives of the grand Orient the cause is not difficult to Divine when Napoleon made himself Emperor among
His first acts was the restoration of religion as a state Affair the celebrated kod with Rome was affected and Roman Cath Catholicism again established as the national Faith as defender of the faith the emperor was too politic a man to declare himself a Freemason he was only a Catholic on the
Surface dogmatic religion possessed no particular hold upon him it was more a matter of public policy than anything else with him but he still respected the outward forms to have announced himself a member of a body declared heretical by the church would have been ruinous to his ambition a throne supported by
Bayonets is very well but a throne booed by bayonets and a vast Army of priests instructors of the young is still better in an absolute monarchy the downfall of the old regime began with the expulsion of the Jesuits by Duke dzel the famous minister of Louis the 15th this vast
Black militia as it is often called has been the supporter of monarchies and state religions for the church flourishes better under absolutism than under a free government and so Napoleon catered to the clericals and won their support though he hedged them about with many restrictions this kodon of Napoleon
Proved the death blow to genuine Freemasonry in France persecuted and hounded by the clericals the grand Orient gradually metamorphosed itself into a secular institution and eliminated from its rituals all reference to the grand architect of the universe and no longer required of its initi IES a belief in deity which in
Englishspeaking countries is the cinon of Freemasonry as a result the grand Orient has been placed under the ban by the English American and German Grand logists this secularization of the order by the grand Orient brought into its ranks all opponents of the Roman Catholic Church in France socialists freethinkers agnostics and atheists
Persecution has made it a powerful political body and now it has developed into a persecutor its old enemy the church has been driven to the wall its orders of monks and nuns forbidden to instruct the young the separation of church and state is only a question of a
Few months the abolition of the kodon May at some future time bring the grand Orient back into the fold of true Freemasonry as at present constituted it is an absurdity for the grand Orient to call itself a masonic body there can be no masonry apart from the
Ancient landmarks belief in God and the immortality of the human soul rather is the grand Orient and anti-catholic Society but to return to Napoleon Napoleon possessed one of the principal requisites for becoming a Freemason he was a believer in deity he frequently rebuked men for their stupidity and not
Believing in an intelligent first cause one of the Civ on board the flagship Express certain atheistical opinions whereupon the little Corporal pointing to the brilliant galaxy of stars overhead exclaimed who made them the starry Vault of Heaven above us and the moral law within us proclaims Albert Pike paraphrasing the great German
Philosopher Kant prove the existence of God again when the scientist llas explained to Napoleon his nebular theory on the universe the emperor remarked but I see no reference to God in your account of the creation ah replied the plus that is an unnecessary hypothesis but Napoleon was unconvinced he realized
That the great astronomer and physicist was only dealing with secondary causes all great Souls had the intuition of a stupendous reality transcending mere material forces who is the author of the cosmos because only an intelligence can bring about such results the laws of nature are meaningless in themselves law
Is but the method by which an infinite mind works imagine all the forces of nature in a state of perfect equilibrium run down and wound up as everything material is tending this being the case as is evidently was at one period of the history of the universe then what power
Could possibly initiate movement unless it were a power Akin or Superior to will Aristotle saw and solved this Sublime problem ages ago llas displayed an extreme dogmatism in his reply to the emperor’s query had he been a profound student of philosophy as well as science he doubtless would have said your
Majesty my hypothesis has reference only to secondary causes I am dealing only with the mechanical aspect of the Sphinx Riddle I acknowledge with Aristotle that it is necessary to posit a supreme will a power that originates movement as the ultimate background of everything that possesses motion but this is for
Philosophy to demonstrate and not science there is every reason to believe that the Great Captain was a Freemason though he did not live up to the tenants of the order he became an initiate not because of any particular love of The Craft and its philosophy but because he
Wished to obtain an insight into its purposes and hold it in check it was too popular and Powerful a body to persecute and so long as it did not concern itself with politics ICS he was content to allow it to exist in France the great doctrines of Freemasonry in regard to
The Brotherhood of Man was an absurdity to Napoleon he cared little for men except as food for power he ground Nations beneath his feet he made millions of widows and orphans the good that the French Revolution had accomplished in ameliorating the condition of the Common People abolishing aristocratic privileges and
Separating church and state with was all undone by Napoleon and now at this late date the work has to be done over again though the present revolution in France is a bloodless one it is nevertheless a bitter one and much persecution and hatred have been engendered if Napoleon
Bonapart was a Freemason the craft has nothing to boast of because of the fact Liberty equality and fraternity the watchwords of the First Republic and borrowed from Freemasonry were meaningless terms to him many Mystics have regarded him as the scourge of God like a Tilla of old sent by Divine
Providence to punish men for their sins and recall them to repentance an autocrat of autocrats he hurled himself like an avalanche upon Europe crushing Kings and Nation like one would a lot of eggshells Liberty was throttled everywhere and yet the seeds of Liberty were swn everywhere to spring up like
Dragon’s Teeth to bite and Rend this sounds paradoxical let me explain in tearing down kingdoms and principalities Napoleon awoke in the masses the idea and love of Liberty which before his time slumbered as embryos in the body politic societies of Patriots modeled after masonry arose in Germany to combat
The Tyrant after the Napoleonic era most of the European monarchies were forced to Grant Charters to their subjects constitutional governments were forc formed like that of England when the masses of the people were plunged Into Darkness of ignorance and Superstition it takes some Dreadful cataclysm like the Napoleonic Wars to arouse them to
Force them to break the bonds that enchain them like Beasts of the field viewed from this standpoint Napoleon the first was an instrument in the hand of God count Tolstoy in his War and Peace makes one of his characters a Russian Freemason give vent to the following one
Of the Brotherhood of Freemasons had called his attention to the following prophecy concerning Napoleon which was derived from the revelation of St John in the 18th verse of the 13th chapter of the Apocalypse it is written here is wisdom he that hath understanding let him count the number of the Beast for it
Is the number of a man and his number is 666 and in the fifth verse of the same chapter says and there was given unto to him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies and there was given unto him authority to do his works during 40 and2 months the letters of the French
Alphabet when disposed in accordance with the Hebrew enumeration which gives the first nine letters the value of units and the rest that of 10 have the following significance a 1 b 2 C3 D4 E5 F6 G7 h8 I 9 K1 l20 m30 N40 o50 p60
Q70 R 80 s 90 T 100 U 110 V 120 W 130 x 140 y 150 Z 160 if the words L Napoleon are Written Letter for letter with this Cipher the result is that the sum of these letters amounts to 666 and therefore Napoleon is the Beast described in the
Apocalypse moreover if you apply to the same alphabetical Cipher the words that is the time 42 months during which Authority was given to the Beast to speak great things and blasphemy the sum of these letters according to the same scheme will amount to 666 whence it results that Napoleon’s
Power was to be allowed to last until the year 1812 when he should have reached the age of 42 the gospel of St John a mystical work has furnished Freemasonry with many of its most potent symbols it is curious to see its sacred Pages can be twisted to
Meet all sorts of problems as Albert Pike declares it is a work on initiation and conceals beneath its somewhat grotesque symbolisms the holy Doctrine The Seer of pmas was undoubtedly a cabalist there are many romantic incidents connected with Napoleon that add a mystical glamour to his career
Which are of interest to the student of masonry he went to Egypt and communed with the Sphinx and according to some writers possessed with more imagination than reason received certain initiatory rights in the sepulchral chambers of the Great Pyramid at waterl he took refuge in a square of the Old Guard a masonic
Character but alas the great dreamer who aimed at World Conquest had to flee like the meanest Camp follower of the army editorial notes the author of this interesting article on Napoleon has requested us to supplement it by printing that part of the report of brother Hall 33rd degree which refers to
Napoleon and to give the statement of clavel showing that Napoleon was a Mason General Hall in his report says the General Secretary of the Supreme Council for England and Wales showed to me among other Treasures in his office in London the aprons of the thir and of the 18th
Degrees which had belonged to Napoleon and which were captured by prussians with his other baggage at xenop on the Eve evening of the battle of waterl it was to me a great surprise to learn not only that Napoleon was sufficiently interested in Freemasonry to possess such aprons but that he would have so
Prized them as to have taken them into the field when opening an active and arduous campaign clavell’s work which is frequently cited in general Pike’s materials for a history of Freemasonry is entitled translated from French to English pictoral history of Freemasonry and of the ancient and modern secret
Societies on page 242 of this book the author asserts positively that the Emperor Napoleon had been made aason in Malta during the stay he made on that island on his return from Egypt he introduces this statement about bonapart when stating the circumstances under which Prince Joseph Napoleon became
Grandmaster he tells us at this period all dissension and Freemasonry seemed to have ceased though many bodies remained outside the union but their membership was so small that the grand Orient was not at all annoyed by them dreaming of strengthening its Temple by securing for its Chief some great personage its eyes
Were turned to the prince Joseph Napoleon although he had not been initiated the emperor had been made a mason in Malta during his sojurn in that Island on his return from Egypt yet he seemed not well disposed towards the society since schisms and dissensions had been introduced into its ranks and
It had departed from the spirit of of the institution his consent however was necessary to validate the election of his brother to the place of Grandmaster and the Marshall MSA and Kellerman and Prince kameras were charged to request it it was secured but not without difficulty Napoleon attached the
Condition that the brother kasseris should be the guardian Warden of masonry the prince Joseph was named as Grandmaster and Prince casseras as first assistant and Jo aim mura as second assistant but neither Joseph nor mura ever appeared in the grand Orient clavel also tells a story about Napoleon’s
Visit to a lodge illustrating it with a steel engraving we have had this engraving reproduced from the original and it appears on a preceding page the Masonic student will find several points in the picture which will interest him an effort was made to induce Napoleon to believe that the Masonic lodges had
Formed a conspiracy against him a particular Lodge composed of Artisans which met in the Fabu s marel was pointed out as one of the principal places where the conspiracy was nurtured the emperor wished to learn the truth of this accusation for himself so one evening in company with the brothers
Duro and Lura ston he visited a meeting of the suspected Lodge remaining unknown Duro entered first and taking a seat beside the venerable Master whispered to him that two other other visitors were about to enter and begged him not to permit any demonstration of any kind to occur when they were received the
Emperor and Laura ston were afterwards presented and were received as had been agreed between durok and the master they were seated in one of the columns and were present for half an hour during a discussion which was pending feeling sure that the stories about the lodge were false the emperor retired it was
Not until the close of the meeting that the venerable master ined formed the Brethren who the visitors were Cel says that if Napoleon had been present and had seen the enthusiasm the Declaration arouse it would have given him a new and incontrovertible proof that nothing was further from the Masons than a
Conspiracy against him while the order of french noad was Masonic in form only and was composed of the partisans of Napoleon with General bertron as Grandmaster yet there were some significant Illusions in its ritual the acclamation of the first degree was glory to the architect Napoleon and the
Statement is made that he labored for 14 years from 1790 to 1804 as an apprentice fellowcraft and Master Mason and 10 years as an architect the names of the eight stories of the tower described in the ceremonies are Noah Adam phag ubber lamech Eve Orient n the initials of these words Spell
Napoleon the lodge La fraternity of stasbor always gave as the First Health translated from French to English our dear brother bonapart ruler of the nation lenning in his German encyclopedia says the name bonapart is unknown in the records of Freemasonry the article was Napoleon the first and Freemasonry Henry ridgley
Evans the author 32 Degree KC was uh the guy who wrote it uh he was past venerable master of mithis Lodge of perfection that’s your Lodge of perfection there brother Chris number one in Washington DC and an interesting article I’m Gonna Save myself for last
On this one so uh so Chris after having heard the article and read through it Napoleon the Freemason let’s chalk this one too it’s a nice story that you want to fill up the pages of the new age magazine context of When It Was Written right so 1904 1905
1906 there you know when they were creating this magazine you know Grand Commander Richardson James Richardson who was a um I want to say Tennessee I think he was the representative for Tennessee he became Majority Whip or minority whip so I mean obviously there’s a lot of political associations here with
Richardson this Evans piece was a series of pieces that were written around this time of let’s identify really prominent individuals in history and let’s find out if they were Freemasons or let’s dive into the history or their research or their background their personality the things that they’ve engaged and so
Um you know was Napoleon bonapart Freemason now if you go back and and look at the evolution of the French Revolution I’m not going to dive into deeply into it but you know that there were the French Revolution was messy there were several different you know turns and parts of the Revolution the
People who created the French Revolution or started it towards you know over time did not eventually survive or see the end of the French Revolution you have Napoleon coming in uh as part of a of a different wave um and so what we see is Freemasonry was active during that time
And so Evans basically posits that could Napoleon have been a member could Freemasonry have contributed to the to the transition from you know royalty to the monarchy to The Republic and then towards sort of the Napo Napoleonic Empire unfortunately like any of these types of research light on History light
On Masonic research there isn’t a lot of Records there are no records that I am aware of and so we can safely say you know Richards wrote this in 1904 1905 we can say back then perhaps they thought he was we can certainly say now that there’s no record of him being a
Freemason fine take that aside put that aside and read evans’s work and see what he is trying to do he’s trying to say that there are points in time where if you are a leader you have to balance certain odds and ends and certain you know personalities and Egos and and when
You are put into a position where you are a leader like Napoleon do the Masonic values do the values that we inculcate in the degrees of equality fraternity you know all these sort of values that we inculcate are those things that we can apply to Freemasonry
And to our daily lives and leading you know our business or our family or our organization and so I think don’t take this stuff at face value obviously Evans is not saying we have definite proof he believes based on the personality and and and you know certain things that he
Proposes that if he was a Freemason perhaps and there’s also the thing that sort of kicks off or starts this article is this lithograph that he’s that is covered in this and unfortunately this is an audio podcast but maybe we can have a picture of it where you see
Napoleon there’s a depiction of Napoleon at a lodge at St Marcel I’m not really sure where that Lodge is or if that Lodge exists up now but there’s it’s a picture of a depiction of Napoleon trying to enter a room he’s giving some sort of handshake here um and there’s
Someone that his his assistant or his Aid next to him and he’s he’s engaging with the Tyler so he’s saying based on this picture you know can we PA it can we talk about Napoleon so again this is the type of article you would have seen back then a
Isn’t this interesting could you see this or you know what were what was Freemasonry at the time during Napoleon’s reign there’s plenty of documentation about Freemasonry during this time there’s there’s plenty of documentation to confirm that Freemasons were active during the French Revolution and certainly during the Napoleonic era
And so uh take this stuff with a grain of salt it’s not the best research but at the same time it’s an interesting article so I’ll pause there brother Matt how about yourself as a uh you know coming coming at this from a slightly newer perspective than than you know the
Historian and and longer serving uh Scottish right Mason Napoleon as a Freemason well in the beginning of the article it it it gives him some somewhat of a glowing review as a person you know and all the things that would that he does that would make him seem to be a
Mason like like Chris said but then it goes further into the article and basically saying this guy was horrible you know when he when he did his thing he was he was nasty and and the only you know he used people just for the means
Of power and was not the good guy that that he was made out to be in the beginning and it makes you scratch your head at that point you know how why would you think from one regard he would have been not just a great only a great
Person but a great Mason or a Mason at all but then to think that the only thing he should be known for is just being awful yeah what I found interesting was was at the end of the article the editorial notes that kind of lean a little bit
Towards some sort of proof that he was a Mason I I found that to be kind of interesting yeah and he references this Pike’s material on the history of Freemasonry so Albert Pike wrote a rather long and interesting manuscript called materials for a history of Freemasonry it was actually a history of
Freemasonry in France and what Pike was trying to do was connect the dots of the origins of Freemasonry in France to the creation of the Scottish right because as we know the Scottish right is not they’re they French degrees they’re not Scottish degrees and so Pike is trying
His best to find those connections and say look there there’s some connections there but to Matt’s point you know that there really isn’t and it is interesting that he sort of louds and he supports and says look at the interesting things that Napoleon did and then you know
There’s actually there’s a great part in it I’ll just Rec recap this he says Evans says the great doctrines of Freemasonry in regard to the Brotherhood of Man was an absurdity Napoleon he cared little for men except as food for powder and ground Nations beneath his feet if Napoleon bonapart was a
Freemason the craft has nothing to boast of because of this fact Liberty equality and fraternity the watchword of the First Republic public were meaningless terms to him many Mystics have regarded him as the scourge of God like Atilla the old so again he what he’s saying is
You can almost end the article there on him you could almost the article there you know that’s great but like when you get you when you ascend to these higher stations of leadership he sort of saying you could take the George Washington route which is quiet solemn dignified acknowledging
What’s going on with power and how power corrupts and then backing out of it or you can take the Napoleonic route of saying well you know I see that there’s a lot of tyranny I see that there’s a lot of problems in the world there’s a lot of inequity and I am personally
Going to try my best I’m going to muster all the forces that I can to fix this under my my rule and those are two completely different sides of the political Spectrum and so you know Evans is is critical here as I suspect Maynard is about to be he’s like you know just
Getting ready the I’m not critical I’m not critical of the author or or or even of Napoleon in this particular instance I am critical of I guess for lack of a better term irresponsible takes on history I think it has caused Freemasonry No undo harm in several ways
And those of us who sort of to to borrow a phrase from the 30th degree battle for the truth we’re fighting a losing battle because these things are fortified behind time and what I mean by that is here we’ve got an article that makes it very a very interesting case for
Napoleon perhaps having been initiated into masonry you know at at the end as as I think as Matt pointed out there’s a a tail end where the the author sort of sets aside and wants to point out that there’s an upcoming article about Napoleon being initiated in Egypt
And Malta and that someone had aprons that allegedly belonged to Napoleon and all that’s all well and good but we haven’t seen any of it we can’t lay our hands on it there’s no actual proof so everything we have is anecdotal and now being such a nefarious character in
History Napoleon is now tied to the craft here whether we want him to be or not and and sometimes that works out to our favor there are a lot of people who want to believe that Thomas Jefferson was a Freemason his father and his brother were both Masons and there
There’s some very scant evidence that Jefferson may have been some kind of Mason certainly the ideals laid out in the Constitution and in the Declaration of Independence both which he had some hand in are certainly based on Masonic ideals and some people would even say lifted from you know whole cloth from
Like the 1723 constitutions and so on but we don’t have any proof of that we don’t have any we can’t prove these things we can’t prove the Knights Templar are attached to the craft and so we have to the people who want to make those negative connections between a bad
Character like Napoleon and Freemasonry you know we’re giving the Amo to load their gun and historically it’s just there’s no proof we don’t have any I mean if okay if you got an apron that belonged to Napoleon where is it can we see it or
You keeping it in a special secret I can only see it and I’m going to tell you about it but never show you Vault that’s you can’t buy that so Matt has his hand up like well yeah well you you talk about the undue harm to masonry and you
Made the comment of him being nefarious well what about the the whole thing in the article of I think it was his name and the French numbering system of letters and if you put it all together it equaled 666 and it’s like okay well what’s what’s the tie in someone’s going
To make to that to the whole luciferian end of things and it’s just the mess that it can turn into because of that yeah the whole the idea of gatria and number codes and all those things I I raise a very big eyebrow to all of that because you know there’s
Always this well if you do this one more thing it adds up to the yeah it’s only this you know it only it adds up to 665 but if you turn it on its side it be there’s there’s people work really hard to make those connections and the
Conspiracy theorists when you point out to them that there’s no direct evidence tying say Napoleon to Freemasonry or tying uh the Templars to to Freemasonry well they say well they had secret meetings of course it’s been hidden they there of course there’s no proof but then in the same breath they’ll attest
To knowing that it’s a fact you you not both both things can’t be true uh it it’s just not and so I I think it’s um it’s sloppy history if it’s an editorial that that says what if or supposes then that’s different I could buy the approach of did masonry have
Some sort of influence on Napoleon I mean you’re talking about the tail end of the Enlightenment period And so certainly the ideals that were expressed in Freemasonry were in the collective Zeitgeist at that point and you know the the Great American experiment was was underway so he would have had to been
Completely deaf dumb and blind to have not have it impact him in some way shape or form but that’s a far cry from going into a meeting and giving passwords and signs it’s just it’s sloppy history I think and and there’s a little bit more research since you know evans’s um
Evans’s uh article here that basically you know there Napoleon when he was Emperor asked and I’m I’m gonna butcher this guy’s name and I apologize but I think his name is Jean jacqu REI de km baras who is the Duke of Parma and so he was a French
Nobleman he was a lawyer uh and he was also a Freemason and so he there are records and letters between these two basically asking you know Napoleon asking uh the Duke of Parma to monitor Freemasonry in France so I’m not now it’s not saying that saying like hey I’m a Freemason I
Don’t know what’s going on with these Masons I want you to monitor them I think it was more of like listen the Masons maybe something’s going on there so I’m asking you as a Freemason to go out and to just monitor them and and just give me a heads up if something’s
Going on you know and so I I think there was you know and and according to the more recent research I think bonapart sort of basically summed it up as it just seems to be this social organization you know these Masonic ceremonies are you know
Seems to be fun and let them just you know have them fun but just watch out you know and so having this Duke serve as an overseer or a a private you know spy I guess um you could say well not really a spy because he’s publicly you
Know known as a Freemason so collecting and giving this information to Napoleon was fine now does that make does that say that Napoleon knew he was you know what was going on because he was a Freemason he was asking this Duke to go no not at all and I think it’s difficult
To make that connection but um just to your point uh uh mayard I I think Sloppy research develops and establishes sloppy rules and then you know sort of the garbage in garbage out theory if you start with bad research that bad research transforms into hey this is somewhat decent research and then
Decades later it turns into no this is very good research right by new people because it says well here it is here’s what we have and unfortunately we fall into that pit trap with not just Napoleon with other notable figures um you know one of the things that drives
Me a little up the wall is you’ll have Facebook or social media that say Hey this this guy was a famous Freemason well no he was a famous person that also happened to have joined Freemasonry when he was younger or when he was social what you really should be showing me is
What did he do with that Freemasonry was he the grand secretary did he write a book on Freemasonry like Mozart for example wrote several pieces about Freemasonry or or reference Freemasonry in his music great but for many of these people like John Wayne I know that we
Did an art we did a post on John Wayne cool that he was a Freemason but what did he do with his Freemasonry right the the same could be said of and with due respect to the great general Douglas MacArthur he made a Mason on site in the
Philippines I don’t know that he was ever seen in a lodge ever the The Grandmaster of the Philippines walked up to him banged him on the head and said boom you’re you’re a Master Mason right the end and that’s that’s not that much of an exaggeration right kind of what
Happened and like you said he’s a famous person who happened to become a Freemason you know almost it’s almost like he was like I just pictured MacArthur out and the The Grandmaster says you want to be a Freemason he says I gu I guess and boom you’re Freemason
And and that was kind of how it went down but there’s a little more to it than that but not that much and no evidence he ever sat in a lodge unlike someone like say Harry Houdini for instance just jump to mind you we’re we’re approaching his 100th anniversary
Of being an Entered Apprentice he became a Freemason he joined deliberately joined a daylight Lodge we have proof he had uh interest in Freemasonry for 20 years prior to his becoming a Mason and then he went and actively looked for membership in the Scottish right and in
The shrine prior to his death so you know that’s a little bit different that’s a guy who really did go out of his own free will and Accord to become a Mason so I I absolutely agree with what you’re saying yeah one of the things I
Think we should point out with regard to Napoleon is that there are he was an emperor he took over military leader as as the article does point out this is a guy who who had some fairly cruel Tendencies and and was pretty ferocious in battle and a lot of portraits of
Napoleon have him with his hand tucked in his shirt and people say That’s The Hidden Hand that’s the hand of masonry or the aluminati or crazy things so it becomes it becomes one more Arrow an article like this becomes one more arrow in the quiver of those the the lunatics
That say that I was just looking a moment ago about why he did that and there was a rumor a long time that his hand was deformed but uh as it turns out he put his hand in his coat uh because it was sort of the fashion of the day a
Lot of people did it and it was to sort of make yourself look a little Slimmer and stand a little taller it was just kind of like putting your hand in your pocket right so it’s it wasn’t a a Hidden Hand thing which by the way anybody listening that thinks The Hidden
Hand is a masonic thing I’ve been in a lot of masonic lodges and seen a lot of degrees and never seen anything remotely resembling that particular gesture books on you know the esoteric and you know the cabala and to me it’s always curious that Houdini went the other way
And was like oh great I became a Mason this is really interesting stuff I I remain a Mason but at the same time he went out of his way to like I’m going to disprove that these people are are whack jobs and these are people that are just
Trying to steal money from impressional people because I think I think he came to the feeling of like you shouldn’t be taking this stuff as serious and and you shouldn’t be taking advantage of people on on topics that are very serious to very you know other people and well it
Was a very personal Crusade for him and this this again we’re on the tangent now so we have to finish it out um well I was I was gonna offer conspiracy theory to finish it out but go ahead but but the the fact was that Houdini was sort
Of indifferent to people doing that for a long time until he had dinner with Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and his wife so Houdini and Bess went and had dinner and I think it was either in New Jersey or New York with uh with um with Conan Doyle the author of Sherlock Holmes and
Also a Mason and his wife and his wife was big into spiritualism and she claimed to be what was called a spirit writer so she’d go into this trance and pick up a pen and then would write a letter from a dead loved one on the other side and so Conan Doyle insisted
That Houdini let his wife talk to Houdini’s dead mother and Houdini never recovered from his mother dying he was very close to his mom and um when she passed it just it haunted him and so now this woman says well I’m going to give you a letter from your mother so she
Goes into this trance and speaking tongues and then starts writing a letter to Houdini allegedly from his mother and she she gives it to him and he he thanks her and he and Bess excused himself and they they head on home in in New York City and by the time Houdini gets there
He’s enraged to the point that he throws the letter in the fire and you know starts ranting and raving and swearing he will never rest until all these spiritualists are put away and the reason was when this woman wrote the letter to hini and gave it to him from
His mother It Was Written in English and Houdini’s mother didn’t speak a word of English ever she was she couldn’t speak English he was Hungarian he he was born in Budapest despite being claiming he was from Appleton Wisconsin um his real name was Eric Vice and his uh his father
Was a rabbi and and so his mother never spoke a word of English not to him or anybody else so there’s no way she would written a letter to him in English and he at that moment was just so crushed that he decided he was going to go on a
Mission to end all of this nonsense and that’s he spent the rest of his life pretty much doing that pretty much like the amazing Randy did here in the 20th and 21st centuries but you know to your point you’re right Houdini didn’t buy into the uh the woowoo part of it where
You know he he left that be and I I think even in morals and Dogma Pike basically says look look at this stuff but understand that it’s a symbol it’s not reality you know the the symbolism of going from a black hat to a red hat
To a white hat mimics you know what we hope in alchemy happens and that a metal goes from a base metal and then Through Fire it is purified until it is white and clean or becomes gold and but it’s it’s a symbolic thing it’s not an actual
Thing so I think I think you’re right that it was interesting that that houd went that way with it but now we’ve got these other guys who are you know want to delve deeper into it and and do the tarot and their horoscope which is if that’s what you believe fine fine yeah
Yeah yeah but don’t associate I’m gonna make fun of you at parties I’m just saying yeah yeah yeah I I Think It’s just tough to I have a difficult time associating Freemasonry with that that’s something different you know that’s something different and that’s great and if you appreciate that and you enjoy it
That’s fine I’ll support you in it but to say that that’s part of the Masonic experience it’s it’s it doesn’t really doesn’t really you know I think it taking a look at a at an odd symbol from the ma uh from the Master Mason degree the 47th Problem of uclid which
Allegedly gifted To Us by Pythagoras and and who said Eureka although he never said that that was Archimedes but at any rate I think what it is is is that people or or Masons through those symbols and through those you know going down those deep dark rabbits holes with
Symbolism and they’re looking for sort of the signature of God they’re looking for proof that that the almighty is there they’re looking to say okay this is this because it’s all by some intentional design by intelligent design and and while I certain understand the desire to have that I think it’s a it’s
As we use the term it’s ineffable it’s unknowable it’s you know it’s it’s an Act of Faith and so you can go down those rabbit holes good long way and still not find exactly what you’re looking for though but what you won’t find is an apron that belonged to
Napolean because I don’t think he had one right well what the The Conspiracy Theory I wanted to present that I was just thinking of what what’s the possibility that that say he was a Freemason and because he ended up being such an awful individual through what he
Did that they said uh we need and after he died they said well we maybe we should destroy this stuff and maybe not let people know that he was I mean we claim Alistair Crowley and Manley P Hall so we’re certainly not shied away from strange characters in Freemasonry even
There’s that somewhat evil ones so yeah and I and I think one of the things that you know it’s funny to me is Manley P hall for example wrote a lot of his books before he became a I think he I think he did join free the Freemasons
But he joined sort of certainly after he wrote these books you know secret teachings of all ages for example so it’s always it was always funny me I think when you you got to look at the Timeline the timeline helps when it when you’re talking about this kind of stuff
I do want to also just reference because I didn’t mention it before and I apologize I just want to be complete with my historical accuracy his brother Joseph bonapart was a Mason and he and the Duke of Parma that the gentleman whose name that I perhaps almost
Butchered the um Jean jaac rier those two individuals were asked by Napoleon apparently to monitor Freemasonry in France and to provide Napoleon with updates so you know his brother being a Freemason a Grandmaster of the grand Orient of France assisting in the formation of you know the Grand Lodge of
Spain is it was it in his family in other words it appears so at least from his brother’s standpoint but you know I’m sure anyone who’s had a brother or a sibling rivalry can say you know the brother is doing this meanwhile you know the Napoleon’s the Emperor of of the
French Empire so perhaps it was a way for Napoleon to say listen let him let him do these things on the side while I focus more on sort of the more more important aspects of monitoring and managing the French uh the French Empire was the Catholic church was he not
Worried about the Catholic Church raising a stink about that over his brother I think there’s I I well obviously there’s a lot of the Catholic church and the Freemasons can you can take it you can do an entire art you I’m sure we will eventually um yeah I’m I’m
Not exactly sure I don’t have access to Joseph bonapart records or archives so I can’t really speak to what he what his feelings and and thoughts on there but I do know just just just in terms of completeness for anyone on the podcast to listen to go out there and do your
Own research on it but we do know that Joseph bonapart uh Napoleon’s brother was active his oldest brother he was active in that yes sorry excuse me he was active in Freemason there is a tie to free not Freemasonry but um Napoleon’s youngest brother actually uh left France uh after Napoleon was exiled
He left France and came to Believe It or Not Baltimore and married the quote unquote most beautiful girl in Baltimore and uh then he left her he didn’t divorce her he just rolled out and uh there’s a street not too far from B where Bowers lives off of Harford Road called bonapart
Avenue it goes off into the woods ways and that’s where he and she lived for a while uh there you go wait minute wait this isn’t one of your Elvis stories is it it is absolutely not this one’s legit this one’s legit I I will often on stage
When I’m performing in a place say you know back in the day there was a church here an Elvis played here and people believe it uh this is not that this this actually happened uh bonapart Avenue is right off of Harford Road near a fair question for me to ask it is
Um I am I I’ve been known to be a prankster but I swear that someone at the Grand Lodge of Maryland it might have been our previous uh museum curator had said that that his youngest brother Jerome is was the man’s name was also a
Mason and and had some ties to a lodge in in town so I I think we’ve got an interesting idea an interesting Theory here I think the a better telling of this tale would be did Freemasonry and the ideals of the Enlightenment that were so prevalent at that point in time
That were really being brought together and and I don’t know propped up by Freemasonry were those a part of Napoleon’s thinking was it something that he feared something he was pushing for um I think based on what you said Chris about U you know him sending a spy
More or less into Masonic lodges shows that he was more afraid of it than not but I I think that’s a that’s a better telling of it rather than to say we think he was a Freemason because of this if you don’t have records of the man in
A in in a lodge me meeting I mean it doesn’t take much to prove that he was a Mason you know they minutes an apron something but we don’t have anything so you can’t you can’t say same thing with Jefferson you just you just you can’t
Say it you want to Lincoln oh Lincoln was gonna petition he swore he was gonna peti and as much as I understand what you’re saying Matt about the conspiracy theory of maybe they didn’t want to be associated with him so they destroyed his records by and large we don’t do
That we we shout those things out that’s why if there was some legitimate connection between Jefferson and Freemasonry or Napoleon and Freemasonry or the Templars and Freemasonry we’d buy TV commercials that said so sure so yeah I I mentioned this I think one of my presentations I think it may have been
To your Lodge Mayor Mount Ararat which was uh we were talking about anti-masonry or you know this idea of um if we really did you know lay out the districts of Columbia in this you know Masonic you know Square Encompass or anything we would have put that on every
Pamphlet on every document it would have been something like look at the things that we did look at this beautiful capital of the new world that we established I mean we Masons absolutely love to talk about our accomplishments and not being able to talk about our even I’m sure there would been someone
That said hey look how great you know Napoleon he was able to bring order and establish an Empire to bring people out of the chaotic you know part of of the Revolution and it’s because he you know masonry helped him do that if there was a possibility that were true French
Masons would have absolutely you know used that as a marketing pitch oh there would be Napoleon lodge number 35 or something sure sure sure sure not lodge number 666 that wouldn’t happen that’s for other that’s for other I’m only taking that from the article I
Had to had to throw that in I will say just as a final point I think what the article does well and it it sort of alludes to this is it alludes to the differences in European masonry and American masonry European masonry tended to be aligned and associated with political organizations and action
Groups and so that’s a little different in the United States we don’t have those types of things in the United States or we traditionally don’t have those things in the United States um and and I think that that’s where that sort of blurred line comes from where you know
Especially people who are either new Masons or non-masons they sort of see it as a political organization you can certainly say in certain parts of Western Europe during these revolutions that Freemasonry may have not necessarily done had a direct role but many of these individuals were participants in lodges and activ ities
And so we can see the hint of politics and Freemasonry intersect in Europe European Freemasonry we can’t necessarily say that occurs in the United States so Evans alludes to this you know this um political connection to Freemasonry I I I think you’re 100% right I think that and because
Freemasonry was critical to our founding fathers that it was sort of baked into the pie a little bit whereas in France and England and other places not as not as much like like I said at the beginning I look at this as a little bit of sloppy history and I think it was
Well intentioned but at the end of the day the the only thing I I gain from this is you know this interesting idea of did did it have an influence over Napoleon the man in terms of of masonic thought so to speak but uh yeah you
Can’t I’m certainly not going to go do a YouTube video on Napoleon the great Mason now that’s for sure right right you could do it on that you could do it on that street though yeah I could go do something on that street so you could talk about Napoleon’s Brothers Who Made
Who certainly had Masonic you know affiliations you can’t say it about about the most famous bonapart oh brother Matt how about you last words on this uh lot of back and forth in it not just as a Mason but as just a person you know glowing review at the beginning and
Then scathing as you went forward enormous education because I had never considered or never even knew that you know the possibility of of Napoleon being a Freemason until you know joining the party so these articles are are are probably more of a a history lesson for
Me and maybe more of a uh refresher for you guys as we do these articles well I really honestly other than the nonsense with The Hidden Hand I had never heard that bone that Napoleon had uh had any connection to Freemasonry I’d heard about the brother Jerome only because of
His ties to Baltimore and there’s they make a big to-do of it at the Maryland Historical Society Museum which if you you go there and they’ve got the artwork that belonged to the bonapart family on display um that that came from the the manor house that I’m not sure if the
Manor house is still there any longer but it’s it’s at the uh the end of a of of the of a long road that is currently called bonapart Avenue that I’ve never really driven down it’s sort of a a dead end Street if you will but they do have artwork that belonged to
Him that that his uh wife sold off to to maintain herself after he abandoned her but having you said that I’ve never heard prior to reading this article that Napoleon could have been considered a Mason I mean it just didn’t seem like he didn’t kind of seem like a joiner you
Know just wasn’t uh he he seemed like he was more the the plunder and pillage type rather than the uh Harmony and Brotherly Love type all right well I think we have kicked this one well around on the New Age podcast which of course New Age magazine predecessor to
The Scottish right Journal if you have a thought on this you want to share or maybe you’re secretly hiding one of Napoleon’s aprons uh send us a picture of it at least at podcast scott.org and we’ll take a look at it and then in the meantime we will pull out another
Article from the mothballs after brother Chris has digitized them so lovingly and we’ll uh we’ll see what relevance they have for masons in the 21st century I’m mayor Edwards 32nd degree case KC along with brother Chris Ry 32nd degree KC and Matt Bowers 32nd degree thanks for tuning in
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