So ladies and gentlemen good morning hope everybody is well rested and super excited for what will be a very um heavy but also a robust conversation uh looking at grief and loss uh among men my name is uh David Miller I am super excited to uh
Moderate the pound I’m also are going to be a moderator and a participant at the same time because growing up in in West Baltimore I experienced um my fair share of grief witnessing U my best friend was shot and killed standing next to me I was in Morgan State University he was in
MO um as well as you know the death of a par the death of a brother and so um when we talk about grief and loss this conversation really uh hits home just a few housekeeping notes for the uh audience anybody who registered uh you will be getting a copy of uh this
Broadcast Kenny brazwell from fathers Incorporated we’ll do what he does he’ll edit add music you know add some bells and whistles that will be made available to you in the weeks to come want to definitely give a shout out to a fathers Incorporated I’m going to consulted with
Fathers Incorporated for the past 15 years it is an Atlanta based organization ladies and gentlemen that is doing amazing work uh with fathers both uh individual fathers and the City of Atlanta I think fathers Incorporated works with about 800 uh fathers in the community in various communities throughout Metro Atlanta each year as
Well as our father’s Incorporated managers the national responsible father here Clearing House which is the Premier entity for research uh policy briefs webinar uh videos anything that uplifts and talks about uh responsible fatherhood I’m also an ining fellow with the Mahan Institute for fatherhood researcher policy Mahan is um seriously
Committed to uh rolling out strengths based research on um on black fathers and we just completed a major report the Dynamics of black fathers in Atlanta looking at the impact and the um the challenges that lowincome fathers in Atlanta of face I was one of the researchers assigned to that project so
Those are two really super important organizations that you can check out both fathers Incorporated and the Manan Institute uh other housekeeping note feel free to share questions we will have a special uh period where we’ll address Q&A but if there are burning questions or comments that folks have
Just jump right in and and and throw your question into the chat and uh what we’ll do we’ll try to get to as many questions as we possibly can and so let me uh introduce our uh P um we have a serious P of folks who are
Ready to dive deep uh and who are ready to help uh me kind of guide this ship with our overarching theme is really ladies and gentlemen around health and healing strategies for men particularly around grief one what grief and lost what one of the things that I’m pretty clear about before before I
Introduce our illustrious panel is I’m constantly noise when I hear people say that that black men are not interested in therapy or that black men are not interested in mental health um I believe that black men are interested in therapy and mental health strategies I think there’s an issue around Community
Education and access and so one of the things that we want to do this morning is really uplift talk about the benefits of therapy we have uh three amazing uh clinicians in the building who could answer any kinds of questions from uh Soup To Nuts And so as well as we have a
Brother who will be sharing his uh personal story and how grief and loss has really impacted uh his family and so let me briefly introduce our panel and I’m sure throughout uh this conversation they will share aspects of their work and who they are both personally and professionally because although we are
All professionals um each of us has been tactive by grief throughout our lifespan and so well this will be a rich conversation where our parents will will also probably share some personal challenges that they’ve had and so uh Dr Janice speak who is someone who was very
Busy back in the day when I was in graduate school she convinced me not to drop out uh she is probably one of the most well-known psychologist on the Eastern Seaboard she happens to be in the great state of uh Maryland um she has a tremendous you
Know practice and a tremendous body of work I want to say good morning to Dr stevon good morning David and you know I love you so I’m excited to be here thank you thank you we also have a Lisa good in the building she is in the great state of uh New York
And she is a therapist doing some amazing work with a particular specialization around grief and loss Lisa good morning how you doing uh good morning glad to be here with you all today thank you thank you thank you ladies and gentlemen I want to introduce
Um brother Tracy Martin who is a um a really serious brother he is a father he is critically uh committed to improving the lives of children uh particularly black uh boys many of you may be familiar with uh Tracy Martin’s uh story Tracy is the father of uh Trayvon Martin morning brother Tracy
Morning brother David how are you good morning Dr Jay and Dr Lisa it’s an honor and a privilege to be here with you guys on this this joyous occasion thank you thank you brother Tracy our last panelist is walking he’s literally walking across canpus um you know all of
Us wear multiple hats from Dr Jeff uh gardier many of you know him as the the hip-hop psychologist you probably seen him on TV Love and Hip Hop and other shows he is literally ladies and gentlemen uh walking across campus he had a teaching assignment this morning
So he will be joining us um momentarily and he’ll fit right in for those who are just joining please feel free to fire away uh with questions but so I’m going to start with Dr Lisa Dr Lisa why are we even having a Reven or conversation about
Men uh with a specific emphasis around grief and loss why are we even talking about this um we’re talking about this because the grief of black men in particular the grief of men period but especially the grief of black men is what I would consider disenfranchised that it’s ignored it’s
Invisible and that often in in times of loss um when you look at Family Dynamics and Community Dynamics um most of the attention is centered around women and how they’re feeling and how they’re doing and how they’re navigating and there’s not necessarily intentional space made for the acknowledgement and the recognition of
The grief of black men and nor is there any acknowledgement or recognition of the multiple types of losses that black men experien um throughout their development starting from children into adolescence into young adulthood and into manhood and so by the time men you know our men you know of a mature age
Over the course of their lifespan they have accumulated a lot of loss and it externalizes in in a variety of ways which often ends up being punished or criminalized um and and dismissed in other ways Dr St samee question I know you B clerson um despite you you for parents you’ve
Been practicing for a couple of decades why why we even have four decades why are we even just having this conversation about men grief and loss well one important reason is because we’re losing men to grief men act like they’re not supposed to grieve and that they’re busy being strong for
The women and strong for the children while suppressing and denying that their hearts are breaking too and so we losing them to depression Rel losing them to drugs we losing them to suicide because they’re so sad and they have know where to put it and don’t know what to do with
It and act like they’re doing what they’re supposed to do which is be strong but I’ll give an acknowledgement right off the bat to Mr Martin because one of the things I remember most from the whole time when his son became a hero for the rest of us is that Dad
Stood next to Mom mom talked and Dad D had his arm around her doing his best to support her but you couldn’t his face was so set you couldn’t see his pain unless you knew what you were looking at and some of us could see
It yeah I mean and that I think that that’s a great um you know same way uh Dr J so so so Brother Martin share with us um I I Can Only Imagine that but but but share with us what it was like man when you got the call and you found out
That your son Trayvon had been killed um it was just it it like it’s like the world stop you know you you don’t as a parent you don’t prepare yourself to bury we don’t prepare ourselves to bury our children we try to live a life that
Allows our children to bury us and so um upon the initial um on the initial information uh finding out that he was he was taken away from us my heart just stopped man there’s no words that that can explain it and we as fathers we build bonds with our children
And and you know we plant for me it was I planted this seed um and I watched I nurtured this seed and just to have this seed plucked from the garden it told me a part man and no matter how long uh of time has passed um you’ll never get over it man
It’s just something that I know we have you know we have different coping mechanisms that we you know that we put in place in order for us to get over it but just the initial call just the initial uh conversation with the detectives I never get over that you never get over
There has something oh please please please because one of the things that that Tracy just spoke to are two things that occur frequently when the cause of death is violence which is the trauma the unexpected shattering lifechanging trauma and then the loss and the attachment to this space in your
Heart yeah and those to frequently get ignored as occurring simultaneously and we have so much violence in our community and we sometimes forget that the grief and the trauma are this and he spoke to it at there a Whiley talk about um your other children and other
Siblings and nieces and nephews in the family what what was that process like sharing with um other children and other um younger children and siblings in the family that um you know Trayvon had been taken away what talk talk us through what that was like as a family
It was a process you know the f one of the first things uh as a father dealing with the grief of a dealing with the loss of a a child and explaining to the rest of the children you know you have to put it in the you have to kind of put it
In a perspective where they fully understand it um the first thing is I think it was real important that we gave that that I reassured the kids that over the course of time it’ll be all right it’s going to take time it’s going to
Take a lot of time for you to to to deal with this to heal from this but as your father you know I’m going to be here every step of the way and just trying to to navigate um through the public eyes what was going on and and trying
To keep a levelhead with my with the rest of the kids um it was tough but just I think the the biggest part the the most uh gratifying part was just reassuring the kids that we going to get through this together I’m not going to let you do this by
Yourself and you know and letting them know that there is help out there for you besides me but as your as your support system you know I’ll lead you in the right direction and so and and that process is actually still going with with my daughter
Because she she you know she was she’s she’s had ups and downs um she she deal first she dealt with the loss of her brother then one of her friends committed suicide wow um and then her mom passed away and so she’s had a lot to deal with and it’s been a an
Emotional roller coaster for her and me just being there for her um in every way I can man it means the world to her and so by her expressing to me that Daddy I appreciate you for being here for me that let me know that I’ve been guiding
Her in the right direction and and that we’ve been helping each other and and so you know Dr Lisa and Dr J I saw with you Dr Lisa in your clinical practice what are you seeing in terms of some of the unhealthy ways that uh particularly black men are are
Managing uh grief and loss what are some of unhealthy things that you’re saying in your practice um definitely the the overuse of substances um there’s a lot of um drinking and smoking and um you know substance use um you know to the degree that um you know it can be classified as
Addiction and you know it’s so normalized that you know everyone does it that in a lot of a lot of people’s social networks because every one is doing it and they’re doing it together sometimes it’s harder for them to identify that you know this is a coping
Mechanism or a tool that’s not serving you well it it’s numbing for right now but it’s basically putting the pain on layway the bill is going to come due um and many times you know there are other consequences that come you know with the with the substance use the other thing
That um I’ve seen is just the you know and I think Dr um Jay touched on this is just this depression and this not not caring right um so it also shows up in risk-taking like a recklessness like what do I have to live for what’s the
Point and um there’s this for shorten sense of future and so people have they have difficulty planning um for the future and delaying um you know gratification um and then and when you combine that with some symptoms like you know with the with the tra trauma part
Of the loss A lot of these men have post-traumatic stress disorder that has been undiagnosed and so they’re in a constant state of hyperarousal hyper vigilance and and high anxiety and so the substances work to mitigate some of that and you really can’t pull that unless you are able to address this
Over there and then the last thing that I will mention um is probably this um hypersexuality like you know a lot of sexual a lot and that’s something that we don’t necessarily connect with a trauma response in respon you know when you look at um especially violent losses
Um but the you know the a lot of a lot of hypersexual um behavior um kind of can unfold and so those are and then anger management but you know but those are like in terms of behaviors and how people are typically coping that’s what um that’s
What I see and that’s really hard to get under when so many of their peers in there it’s just every it’s just everywhere and there’s a lot of pressure even when men want to P away and say I want to do something different um it’s a
Lot of pressure for them to continue to cope and manage in that way because that’s what they see the other men around them doing and and and Dr Stevenson again I know you have an extensive background in working with men I know you’ve worked with men on Death Row you’ve done a lot
Of work with men in in the Maryland jails and as a as a psychologist what what are you seeing in terms of the kinds of unhealthy coping strategy that men are using to deal with grief and loss well I want to Echo what Lisa was saying and extend it a little bit for
Example with when I’m working with drug addicts um one question I will always ask is what was going on the day before you took your first hit because that’s the day yeah I agree Le that’s the day that they decided that their life had less value and their need
To not feel pain had more value because it’s rare that they don’t understand the risk and dangers of drug use but their hearts hurt so much and frequently that drug use will start 9 10 11 12 years old because there’s so much hurt already in
Place and we act like that’s not true if I as the adct uh well when did you decide that you wanted to die because every hit is a risk of an overdose or some kind of weird reaction to something you don’t even know is in the substance and you’re
Willing to take it to stop feeling but the other thing that I wanted to add is that people forget that grieving is healthy it’s the body’s way it’s the heart’s way of registering change and loss in your being we have to figure out healthy how to navigate life without
This person who we are attached to hi Jeff welcome hello how are you good doctor so uh being able to recognize that grief is healthy rarely occurs people treat it like it’s I messed up and now I’m going to be depressed or this is going to kill me I
Might as well heal myself first without ever paying attention to the fact that if I don’t grieve if I don’t stop and figure out how do I navigate life with all that I acquired from the person who died I have a couple couple clients I’m working with right now where a parent
Died and they’re acting as if God personally uh is punishing them for being bad children along the way because if they weren’t God would let me have my mom or dad who I need so much and these are important distortions in our thinking because we’re making it our fault
That someone died I worked with a with a a lady whose son was killed by DC police and her perception is that she caused it because she she didn’t put the gun in his hand she didn’t send him out into the streets to be crazy he learned that
From his peers and he thought he was doing the right thing and when he was dying he said I’m sorry I love you I’m sorry Dr Janice um you don’t can I chime in on that for a second and you you said something uh very profound I think that
As a and my perspective from my perspective is um as a parent we do blame ourselves um and I blame myself for a long time uh for the for the violent death Trayvon I blame myself um in an aspect that I wasn’t there at that particular
Moment to protect him from his asant and so for a long time I Carri that burden of of just saying if only I would have been right there at that particular moment to protect him I could have prevented it and which isn’t true please note that it is not true
Everybody when we die everyone right this is not an eternal life right and it it took me it took me a couple of years to come to terms with that that you know that that wasn’t it wasn’t my fault uh the altercation occurred and you know it just wasn’t
Anything I can do to prevent that from happening at that particular time just love him definitely just love him and it’s hard it’s hard for people to really grasp that I I have a a a mom right now who whose son died of an asthma attack and
She really wants to argue with me that I’m mistaken because actually her son is on a uh academic uh Voyage to out of Mongolia where they have no cell service and so he can’t stay in touch with her and he’ll be back any day now and we start every session literally for five
Years now saying he’s still dead W because there’s a chance he might not be we live we live like this life is is Immortal and it’s not so we in denial every day that life is real it is what it is yeah yes and when we realize that
Morality has occurred we change who we are you know like I’ve known Jeff a long time we haven’t been in contact with each other but we used to do talk shows we used to do the same talk shows and every time I see him I get really excited because that’s my brother you
Know that’s my brother and when dve when when David said that he was going to be one of the panelists my first thought was oh good neither one of us are dead that’s deep yeah so let me let me let me bring Dr Jeff uh into the
Conversation uh Dr Jeff thanks for your gracious time and your expertise to this important critically important conversation in your work what are some of the unhealthy behaviors that you’re seeing from men who are coping with grief and loss well a lot of what I’ve heard is absolutely true that grieving is um a
Very healthy thing is part of the process of dealing with death uh and we all grieve in our own ways um and I think really what we tend to see with men in general is um you know and I know for Tracy it’s been a a different route
Because of the type of man that he is and I’m not making value judgments against my my other brothers in any way but knowing you know that you know this is a person who Tracy has always been a person you know who is about his family and I
Assume had a very healthy adjustment through life from what I can tell uh right now but what we tend to see is sometimes there are unhealthy ways of grieving and that may be being angry with whomever may have been involved with the person who is now dead or uh being angry
Uh with oneself as we know that in some ways that kind of guilt can be healthy for some period of time but we have to begin to work through that and see it for what it is but some of the unhealthier ways of coping as we know substance abuse um being physically
Involved with others in a very dishonorable way uh that ends up hurting our spouses and those who are grieving with us um being in complete denial as we’ve just heard um from our good doctor that this is you know being in that denial for that kind of period of time you know
Initially sure that’s a coping mechanism but then being in denial as if nothing happened and it doesn’t have to be as Extreme as just as we just heard you know the room is pristine this person is coming back at some point but being in the denial life moves on and now you
Have to redefine who you are and for black men um in general I’ll just say that we really haven’t been socialized to tap into a lot of our emotions and our feelings and therefore we tend to submerge those and repress those uh even further because we are much more
Concerned about surviving and getting through life being strong being able to de deal with oppression and therefore we don’t give ourselves the grace to be able to work through um the grief and the sadness of of uh being separated from one from someone notice I didn’t say losing someone because I believe
That we are always with them in one way some form or fashion okay okay so do men and women grieve differently and I’m I’mma go to go to Dr Lisa do do men and grieve do men and women grieve differently what are what are your thoughts I’m just
Curious well um Dr Ken DOA talks about um the differences in grieving styles with intuitive and instrumental grieving with intuitive grieving being being more emotion or feeling oriented and expressed in that way and instrumental geving being more task centered or task oriented and so typically you know when
We think about um uh you know women we give space we make space and we have even ex we have even expectation that how they’re going to ex deal with their grief is through the identification and the expression of their emotions and it is socially acceptable to do so um where
Has men um you know are they are doers right they’re problem solvers they’re providers they’re protectors and so how they may Express their grief um may look come more in the form of um of doing and so you know I think that when you look at differences um some men have you know
They they kind of move in between but if you look in our community and you look at like I’m going to talk specifically has it relates to homicides and Community violence because that’s my Lane um when I look at what the women are doing and what the men are doing the
Men are at the memorials they’re you know um they’re at the memorials they’re building the memorials they’re they’re doing things um they’re cor coring libation at the at the memorials right they’re sitting they’re Gathering um they’re doing things and when I think of you know like you know how they make
Meaning make they may make meaning through community events and community service right um they’re doing it may look more doing and instrumental and in terms of the family Dynamics when it comes to couples sometimes in couples you know there’s a disconnect because the woman may say well you’re not
Feeling you’re why aren’t you crying why aren’t you expressing but you know he is expressing maybe he’s fixing that room maybe he’s fixing the car or that the the that that his child can no longer drive you know maybe he’s you know coaching this team over here you know
And so it looks different and we have to make room for for that for that difference and be okay with that as opposed to holding that in judgment but it does look different and and also acknowledging that neither one is wrong you’re not wrong this is how you’re expressing it
But how dare you assume that because I’m not emoting or I don’t have the capacity or because that’s not been modeled for me that um that I’m not grieving how dear you assume that and so I think a lot of people make that assumption and a lot of men live under
The weight of that judgment and that assumption which further um um put positions them to suppress their grief I I I agree with that I agree with that let me just uh uh David very quickly say as I was listening as I was listening to
Dr Janice and Dr Lisa and Tracy um I what I thought was we grieve death the way we live our lives right definitely definitely so Dr J then I’m g go I’m go Tracy what your thoughts Dr J do men and women grieve differently um I want to Echo
What Lisa said and and extend it a little bit because if you look at how we raise boys and girls you can see the foundation lay for the differen is there if if a girl is out playing and she bumps her knee and she starts to cry
Then we rush over oh baby you okay let me hold you let me come for you if the boy bumps his knee boy you better stop all that noise you better get up and go ask there and play I got time for all that foodish L you need to stop all of
That so even as four five six seven years old we interact with them differently men are not allowed to hurt and we act as if men are 100% logic and 100% strength and they don’t have a brain and a heart and that heart doesn’t hold love
In it my work is taught me especially with the guys I work with on death row I I’m really tired of men saying no one’s ever listened to me before no one’s ever been willing to just sit with me thank you lady for just listening and letting me
Talk and see that means that the women that they dated the women that they slept with the women that they made babies with didn’t listen and then the men don’t often use the language like Lisa was saying the men aren’t necessarily socialized to be expressive unless they have an expressive
Father who accepts that he’s sensitive and welcomes someone hearing him just like he’s willing to listen to her sometimes we need men to beloved we love them because they understand me they can hear me but we don’t give them the same courtesy back I just wanted to add to what Lisa
Was saying with that but one other piece to this the healthiest men we know are the men who are the most balanced they they treasure their intellect they treasure their strength and they nurture their hearts and they they stop we women from berating them or judging them they don’t
Take in the messages from other men who say you being a b now come on boy be a man stand up to it they don’t they know that that message has nothing to do with them someone just said if men are not allowed to hurt how do we learn to get
In touch with it to be in a space where people will listen there are men out there who are willing to listen the whole fatherhood movement is men working with men where men have discovered that they can um be nurtured and they can nurture and so they nurture other
Men there are mentally problems like big boys big brothers and and Big Sisters where men who are willing to nurture take on when there’s an absence of men Kenny’s book about spitting anger is a profound nurturing for men I had him come speak to my clinicians at a clinic I was
Working in around about the time of the Freddy grey riots in Baltimore and when he left speaking to my clinicians about his book he showed his video and talked about his book some of the therapists who were in the room the men therapist were in tears because they never thought about absent
Fathers because they were big boys and they were GNA be men they be the man of the house and they could handle this and they could take care of Mama and they could take no they heard H too and those therapists now are different than how they work these are
Men therapists black mind are different now in how they work with male clients boys or men and so Dr J I I I remember when TR when uh Kenny um shared the video and and somebody Kenny if you could put the website your website in the chat people
Has behind haing they get the book so Tracy let me brother B let me ask you a different question because I do think it’s really important for us to really um talk about fathers and how fathers G what what’s the best advice you re have received along this journey that you’ve
Been on what’s what’s the best advice you receive as a as a father who’s grieving uh one word vulnerability you have to allow yourself to be vulnerable that’s the only way you g we look at it as you know how we can how can we heal um as men as fathers we’ve allowed
Ourselves to put on our shield and not let it get cracked we’re afraid we too often we’re afraid to expose the things that that are that’s hurting inside and so we don’t allow ourselves to be vulnerable to you know opening up to to therapist doctors or anything of that
Nature nature and so we’re continuing to keep everything bottled up inside um it’s it’s our masculinity as our pride um we we don’t I I can’t let you see me cry because now you you think there’s a weak point I have a weak different weak pointments in my life and
So for me just being able to open up and talk to um Talk to a pastor or talk to a therapist or whatever it was tough at first because I just didn’t want to let them inside to know what was going on and eventually I started opening up and
And letting them understand uh uh trying to get them to understand my hurt is is what I’m trying to get at we just and that that goes back to the mental health a mental health aspect is like in in our community ities we think that mental health means that something’s wrong with
You that you’re crazy you’re getting a check for something and it doesn’t mental health um mental health ties in with um our young men out here killing each other in the streets at the age of 13 14 15 years old those are mental health issues that we have to
We have to discuss in our communities and we don’t discuss them and so just being able to open up and have a dialogue about what’s hurting what’s damaging what’s what’s being U uh what’s being unhealthy in my life as I’m grieving being able to open up to that to those aspect different
Aspects help me cope with a lot of different things in life and you know that’s that’s just as I you know as I said it before um allowing ourselves to be vulnerant and let people understand us that’s that’s what helped me cope with a lot of
Things so so before I go to to Dr Jeff um I want to thank you brother martin and you raised I think a critically important point y’ we gota we got to get Beyond this idea or this this this this this myth that we keep perpetrating that
Men don’t want to talk and that men don’t want to be vulnerable I think the critical question is particularly for those who do this work that we created an environment within our agencies that that makes men feel physically and emotionally safe when men feel physically and emotionally safe they’re
More likely to open up and so Dr Jeff what what advice would you give grieving fathers um well uh let me answer it this way um grieving fathers have to find um folks like uh Dr Janice uh and uh people with the information like Dr
Lisa and peer groups that are run uh by Brother Tracy um I I think it’s really important and and this is where the disconnect is and you know Dr Janice your way you’re you’re you’re you’re waving your hand like I can’t handle anymore I don’t know
I have 70 clients I have 70 clients 70 70 hours huh okay well that’s why you’re still alive and me too but and you’re doing it in style you’re doing it in style but here’s the thing that’s missing right and this is what Dr Jenis talked about having Kenny come in
And speak to the clinicians the training around cultural sensitiv ity cultural competence multiculturalism and working in communities for example with black males understanding the socio biocultural aspects not just the psychology of who we are as black men but the environment in which we live in
The society in which we live in and how that affects us why we are are socialized by society and our own families to have to be these really tough individuals it’s not because you know we feel that’s the way it should be as a stereotype but it’s also about the
Protective covering if you will the Adaptive powers that we want our black males to have but at the cost of their expressing their authenticity so as we train more and more clinicians black white asian LGBT toi any intersection we’ve got to train them in the
Nuances of what it is that black men go through every day what it is that they need and understanding as our colleagues have said how they grieve and how they grieve in different way and how many times the way they grieve is not wrong but very different and adaptive to them
But we want them we have to work with them to have more authenticity to be able to come out and say how they feel to be able to cry to be able to fix the car to be able to fix the room and not be judged for any of those things and
That comes from the training that that’s the way we need to educate Clans there’s a movement of foot in this nation to take away training our students teaching our students emotional intelligence teaching our students black history teaching critical race Theory we are stripping the soul of our children young uh black
Children who grow up and become these individuals who now are stuck in one way of functioning and so we have to undo that work as therapists as researchers as writers as advocates everything we represent on this panel of Kenny you know feeling fathers Incorporated and
Writing as many books and on and on and on the research that we do those things are very important and I had and so to what do what Jeff is say because um I remember the day before Kenny and David wrote books and I remember the discussions
They had when they talked about they couldn’t find books written by black men for their black children and they made a decision to write two books a year and now they each have an arsenal of books that they take around to schools and the community groups all
Over the country but definitely up and down the East Coast because two black men decided to write books for children period so black children could benefit from it but there’s another thing I want to pick up on what Jeff was saying when segregation was throughout the planet I’m 77 I’m old enough to
Remember that okay when segregation was was rampid in the world we managed our own communities we took responsibility for what our children learned and what we taught them about who we are and how we survived and what our strengths are so that it could not be taken away from
Us by a larger society that wanted to keep us in bondage so it’s it’s blowing my mind to reach this I was one of the people that got went to White schools under the police escort and by the way that’s a loss in my life that it took me a long time degree
And now to watch people take the books out and all this stuff that be fought for they think that’s going to stop us being the power that we are but we know our vulnerability we know our strength we know how to stand on who we are and
So what Jeff is saying is real important there’s no reason why we can’t take these conversations about grief into the pulpit or into churches or into religious organizations we can’t take it to the fraternities and the sororities where they’re doing Community work we there’s no reason we can’t take it into
A social like the links or other organizations that just service our community because we know our children and we know that they need to be held and they need to be nurtured and they need to be heard and they need to be cared for I don’t want to go into
Another prison I mean somebody put on the on the chats that they work in the prison system in Maryland supermax and Marland Penitentiary are my home they’re right down the street and I was at P Institute about two weeks ago working with a guy but the point we’re making is
That it’s our children in those prisons and they’re grieving the loss of so much more than you could ever comprehend a friend of mine over Morgan uh just is p is in the process of publishing a book called redlining childhood the survival nomic of America’s neglected neighborhoods it is profound when you
Read it because it’s not going to read like you think her name is L Edwards Dr lce Edwards she’s in the public health department at Morgan and how do I say this I met her when we were doing treat foster care together so her whole life like all the
Rest of us has been committed in some way or another to working with our community and trying to improve it and so one thing we can do to help people manage grief is remember who we are and remember what we stand on by the way that was the message I
Gave to Dave because he was in my class in gcha and he has to remember to honor his friend who was killed right in front of him by mastering himself so he can be the best that he can be and every time I see him steeping out I’ll be like a
Proud mama I ain’t playing cuz that’s my baby and he’s doing good and his friend would be proud of him I know he would be I’m G be quiet for a while I just wanted to add something about to what Dr Jeff said just about
The training part of it in terms of like the culturally responsive training I think that clinicians and and service providers also need to be um structurally competent you know um where they have an awareness um of the social determinance of health and how that impacts The Men
Who show up in their services and in their practices and not using the social determinance of Health has some kind of abstract concept but actually using that with the man in the center and looking at all of these different determinant of Health um to include uh emotional and
Mental health to say what factors you know are at work in this man’s life because then that helps to give um cont context to the life and it also hopefully will motivate and change how we serve um because what how we need to be served is not in the
Books do is Meaningful and effective but it’s not in the books right it you know we have high touch right we reach out we’re checking you know we’re doing all of the things because there is been there has been so much LW in early on in
The lives of so many of these young men um even as children that um it takes a different model and it’s not in the books and I think that when you have some awareness of not just being culturally responsive but also being structurally competent then you know we can you know again hold
That practice-wise in a different kind of way as opposed to the way it traditional Services hold it which is you missed three appointments so now you can’t ever schedule us with us for a year or you you you you didn’t comply with this so now you’re ineligible to
Rece see you know receive the services and a social determinance of help and understand being structurally competent helps you to understand and give context to maybe why what’s happening um for um that person missing those appointments for example David can I can I just want to jump in and and it goes
Back to uh something uh Dr Janice was was was speaking on and segregation um what part of I mean at at some point we have to realize that segregation plays a huge part in our mental space our health and our well-being um and and I say that because
Uh along with segregation there were a lot of different things that came along with that and we we’re now starting to see some residual effects behind segregation um and a part of that is I’m I’m a firm believer in someone Someone Keeps putting in the chat about systemic racism and so a part
Of that systemic racism to me is eliminating the father from the home and so just knowing that we’ve created we’ve created Society has created an atmosphere where if I allow if I allow a mother and her four children to stay in affordable housing for $8 a month without the father being present
In that home I can divide and conquer and so to me that’s all a part of systemic racism right I’m I’m going to take the father out the home I’m gonna I’m going to force this 9 10 11 12 year old child to become the man of the
Home and by the time that child’s 15 years old he’s in the system he’s in the he’s in the prison system because he’s been trying to take care of the household and so it’s is it a calculated plot you can say yeah you know some say yes some say no
Um but that just you know some of the things that we don’t discuss um and it is some of the things that we discuss uh with our men’s group trying to allow them to understand that listen this is how the system is built this is what it was for and that’s
Why you find many fathers that are afraid to expose their hurt expose their pain and so I just I just wanted to add that to that that that part about um segregation a lot of things came with segregation can I add to that a little bit I’m intrusive but I’m like I said
I’m gonna try to be quiet but it hard to resist this one um because we also act like there’s not grief like deep profound guttural grief in what brother Tracy is describing for example as a culture we grieve separation from our home and our history and our language
And our traditions and everything then over here we grieve loss of an identity we grieve loss of respect and loss of Integrity because we’re treated as with the same value that the couch is treated and not that we stand as humans in side by side with other humans it’s
Not we don’t grow in a world where we are human beings working with other human beings we are viewed as what that got my doctorate I was so many first that I got headaches behind it which is ridiculous right because we’ve been getting educated since we were
Slaves the only people that didn’t know it was that majority and now they’re mad because he had the audacity to we don’t even mention Dr Chris we got that’s my contemporary person but we act like we weren’t supposed to elect a black d president so now the whole country is
Grieving that we got a little power understand that this grieving is epidemic in the society and then we have our boys and our and our and our daughters our girls and our boys being killed because they had the nerve to stand and walk free I’m like by the start of a re ution
I want to start an evolution because we are going to grow whether anybody likes it or not and now there are more minority than there are majority yep and there’s a grieving to that the point I’m trying to make is a change period across the board however it occurs positive or
Negative there a change it’s a loss it’s a shift it’s a difference we grieve that when we walk around denying that we’re grieving and we eliminate our men from being able to cry because they hurt or we don’t hold them because they need comfort like we need comfort we act like
We all don’t have some little child in us who couldn’t wait to crawl on the Mama’s lap because that was the safest place in the world and how dare she die because where am I going to go for Comfort who’s going to comfort me because we don’t trust
I meant what I said when I said I’m glad to see Jeff because we’re both still alive because every day is a blessing it’s a gift so so let me let me do this uh just I make a couple of just share a couple
Of things and then I walk um you know we got my 300 plus folk in Che um so folks begin to start um curating thinking about your questions I know we going to need to do a part two um I’m gonna ask the panel a
Question that I that I that I really uh think will be extremely beneficial but but I’m but I’m listening to y’all and um you know the first thing that comes to my mind is you know the work of Amos Wilson Dr Amos Wilson where talked about um you know suicide or installment plan
For black men because of this overwhelming overwhelming levels of grief and loss I remember before the therapist that I have now right the therapist I had before when I had shared with my therapist all of the you know guys that I knew and the things that I witnessed growing up my therapist was
Overwhelmed so I had to get rid of that person get get another one but I’m also reminding reminded of a quote by prolific uh writer ishmail Reed being a black man in America is like being a spectator at your own lynching wow being a black man in
America is like being a spectator at own L the only reason why I share those two quotes one by Ish Reed and another by Amos Wilson is because somebody put in the chat J can black men really heal an America and I think that that’s a whole
Another y’ we got to come back back and do a a part two and a three and a four and five one of the questions that I want to ask the panelist because we got a lot of clinicians we got a lot of folk that are doing deep in work in prisons
We got a lot of folks that are doing highend work with young people that are listening to this broadcast and a lot of folks are bound out right I run a I run a rer passage program in Baltimore we have 16 men who have been involved in this rigorous ROP
Process with us for the past six months and a month and a half ago the men shared with us that they are struggling mentally and these are men that are doing amazing work in communities but they’ve C to the P where they realize that they’re overwhelmed so my question
For pal is can each of you share three things that you do to help you step away from the work I me Dr Stevenson you have a case look you got 70 clients that’s that’s that’s overwhelming to me 70 right but Dr Janice Dr you know um Dr
Jeff Dr Lisa Tracy TR Tracy Martin share with us just three things that you do that help you step away from the work because some many of us are burned out and overwhelmed and also think this notion of self-care we talk about self-care in the abstract but I think we
Need to be very concrete on we talk about selfcare and and what I do is I’ll stop as I see my good brother darl Green in the building go with his check out his work deep forgiveness he’s doing a major work Daryl and I go fishing fishing saved my life right I’m usually
On a fishing boat when it’s regular once or twice a month so fishing uh writing children’s books and then the other thing is um I go to Africa a lot being able to go to the continent has also helped me help save my life because I
Got to get out of America I don’t know I don’t know about anybody else but for me getting on the plane I was this in South Africa a couple months ago um getting out of this country for me is deeply therapeutic I said we’re gonna go with
Uh Dr Jeff just share three things that you do that help you put the work on the Shelf so that you can take care of yourself yeah I I believe that self-care is one of the most important things that we can do uh especially if we are in the
Uh business and the mission and the spirituality of helping others um and maybe that’s why uh Dr Janice and I are still alive because you know we do we do some things um I I have three things uh maybe four or five but I’ll I’ll make
Them very quick um you know um Dr Janice you may not know but uh um since we last talked uh I think I started with about uh maybe three children and I’m up to six children now I have a a 31 year old
A 30y old a a 22 year old a 21 year old an eighty old and a seveny old I like to say I’m like the old man in the shoe I have so many kids I don’t know what to do so that time with the children you know
You know and and and and Trace I say that especially to you because you know because of what you’ve been through brother you know we always we we all always think of you we all always we always think of you we think of your family you know we think of trayvon’s
Mom we think about you guys all the time I just want you to know that okay appreciate definitely appreciate you know so spending that time with my with my family with those children you know seeing three generations of children and knowing how I can do better with each generation because the first generation
I screw screw them up Dr Janice don’t get me started okay and you had to learn you they had to teach you so you could raise the other and they remind me every day the second thing I do is I exercise and I exercise every single day I think that’s
What keeps me alive I need it I need it for the dopamine release I need it for the excitatory neurotransmitters I need it for my physical health and my psycholog iCal health and then the third thing I do was I I’ll condense them into three is David
You talk about you need to leave the country and so I don’t have the luxury of leaving the country because of all my responsibilities and children but at least I can leave the country in my own mind right as Sly Stone said you know you can be free at least in your own
Mind and so what I do is every weekend every single weekend in the summertime uh I actually sit on the beach um and you know I have a nice sparkling water and I listen to Jazz okay so right back Dr Jeff are you have any more children um so I so I said
To my wife why don’t we just have another child she didn’t talk to me for three weeks then at the end of the three weeks I said to her I guess the answer is no okay I guess that’s airm no so so brother Tracy and is as Dr Jeff say we
We we think about your family all the time and share with f you’re three the three things that you do to kind of take care of yourself I think uh my biggest thing is is you know reaffirming my connection with god um so that’s that’s that’s one of my pet peeves
Um getting into a space um getting prayer um and and just making sure that my relationship with God is is is solid and understanding and then family spending spending as much time as I can uh with my family um we were talking earlier about my youngest child Tyler um
I I’m one of those dads that every event that he has at school um there and and and he’s he’s he’s become just like a a bright spot in my heart um although he doesn’t he doesn’t replace Trayvon he puts uh he puts so much joy
In my life that he helps me heal um and and he he resembles him so much and then the third thing is um I like to go for you know drives and just get to myself and and and put on uh my playlist and listen to a lot of Frankie Beverly and
Ma a lot of OJ’s a lot of uh The Spinners The Whisperers that just kind that that kind of it takes me back to a lot of a lot of the music that my mother listened to that my father listened to and so those are three
Things that I I usually do to kind of decompress or separate from the work and uh I I love it man when my wife rides out of town with me I’ll put on one song and she’ll just say can you stop playing that song and go to the next track
What’s the song what’s the song brothery I I love that Lenny Williams man L very hard to do they don’t make they don’t make music Frank funny I’ve just started listening to like so hard listening to Curtis Mayfield and uh you know now you’ve gone and um born on the other
Side of town and you know those you know those are amazing songs but you know I do want to add uh because uh brother Tracy reminds me of course religion is important Dr Janice I became an ordained minister I figured since I’m getting closer to the end I need every Advantage
I can get you know this morning uh I figured I’m gonna order the Donald Trump Lee Greenwood Bible I don’t know if y’all heard the Constitution affixed to it that’s what he said true story but I’m not gonna get that I have my own King
James so come on in Lisa tell us your three and then we’ll go to Dr James um wow um so definitely exercise um for me um so I knew we were going to be doing this this morning so I I was up at like five and out the house you know
By a few minutes after 7 you know so I could get at least three miles in um so that’s something strength training um um over the last year was definitely transformative for me so it wasn’t just the The Walking part but the strength training um is a different kind
Of release in terms of all of the traumatic energy um that I store from all of the stories um that I take on and the reason I started doing that is because I I had I started to notice um the reason why I got diligent with it
Because I I I’d always done it but not consistently but the reason I got diligent with it is because I started to notice that you know after a day of sessions or a day of out in the community doing trauma responses and those kinds of things like my body
Literally hurt I mean it literally ACH it felt like a weight I could barely lift my legs up the stairs and I I was just like no we we we cannot do this so um so definitely exercising um the other thing um of course for me that’s really big is Faith
My faith is My Sanctuary it’s my safe space it’s the Place worship is the place where I’m able to just really expel all of the stuff that I don’t even have words for um it’s the place of my travail right and in that place of travail is a tremendous um unburdening
For me that um then emptying and then being refilled with um fresh anointing fresh insight and fresh wisdom and strategy for and hope um hope um that healing is possible um for the people that are serving because so much of the loss and Trauma that they’ve endured in in the
Natural sense you could never conceive how could they ever be whole again and so I I need to go in into those settings with hope and then I think the last thing would probably is just being with my family my parents are you know um you
Know you know older and I think in this season uh being Sensi especially sensitive and in tune to um you know black men and their grief um spending time with my dad in a different kind of way um has been really um meaningful and learning about his journey and there’s a
Story that I’ve yet to get him to talk about but I think we’re getting there I want him to share with me what it was like for him when him and my mom were D married and um my baby sister died um and so you know I took him to
The doctors a few week a few months ago and the doctor said have you ever had a head injury and he said yes and I’m thinking what’s happening what’s happen and then he said I was hit I was beat in the head by the police and I had 81 stitches and he
Pointed to this I had never heard that story so it’s in caring for my parents in that way especially my dad because he you know especially my dad it’s it’s it’s causing me to be grounded and present in a way that I find very healing and and as a form of self-care
For myself right now thank you thank you uh Dr J three three uh three things you do to step away from from them 7 de cly good good luck with that three David okay so I think I condensed it actually to two statements um one is that I go inside myself so I
Swim um and I read my Bible every day I meditate on it I study it um I’m active I go to a bible-based Church um but all of that is me going inside myself um and one of the gifts I gave myself through covid because I couldn’t go swimming
During covid was to do yoga and so now I do yoga I try to do it every day I’m some days i’ rather just sleep but I try to do my yoga every day and there are forms of yoga that are called trauma yoga to help you they target the areas
Of your body that hold trauma in them um but but the first thing I do really is go inside myself and then I realized is I was listening to everybody that I did something early in my career uh I minored in African-American studies when I went to the University of
Maryland and I had a professor there who said uh he’s from Africa and he said don’t let this country Define you and I took that to heart and David knows because he’s watched this over time I Define myself so when somebody says this is how you’re going to run your practice I’m
Like okay and then I Define how I’m going to run my practice so I have a lot of clients on my 77 7 70 clients who don’t have insurance and don’t have the ability to pay which is why I ain’t got no money but that’s not the point
Because I know that they’re getting therapy that can change their life and so for me that’s nurturing every session that I have with a client is me honoring my mother who was mentally ill as I was growing up and when I was 12 years old
She sat our house on fire that was a huge trauma but I decided to honor her because her psychiatrist is she had back and them they sucked I don’t want to be a psychiatrist I didn’t find myself I treat who I choose to treat so it’s hard
To get into my schedule because I don’t work with just anybody so I enjoy every client I end every session with acknowledgements to my mother because without me walking at her side my whole life I wouldn’t be this out spoken therapist who goes deeper if I can on
Every question so th those are nurturing that I can give to myself every day every hour because I have like Lisa was saying I have to replenish I give out a lot so I have to replenish so now I can do it every day and iine whether I’m doing well or not
Because I listen to my clients and they tell me somebody made comments on the thing about humor I use humor there’s no point life is ridiculous so let’s just laugh at it so those are the two things I do I Define myself and I go
Inside and so a c a couple things uh folks this has been extremely rich we have about 15 more minutes please drop your questions in the chat I just want to shout out some folks people always say that they’re no programs or you know this work doesn’t doesn’t exist uh I
Would I be to differ with you there’s some amazing individuals and organizations in communities across the country that are doing some heavy work we got a we got a bunch of folks in the building check out darl green work at Deep uh forgiveness my good brother Brandon hey black Daddy’s Club in
Toronto I had to say have to go out to Toronto to spend some time uh with them and they’re doing some amazing work you guys definitely check out fathers Incorporated doing some serious heavy lifting on a on a local level in terms of in metro Atlanta and
Then on a national level to fathers incorpor fathers Incorporated check out the monan institute for fatherhood research and policy we’ve just released a couple of major reports uh looking at um you know black fathers particularly black fathers in the Metro Atlanta um I’m trying to think who else I need to
Shout out there’s a couple other good folks in the building but definitely drop your questions in the chat and we’ll be able to uh address the remaining questions that you have if you think we need to do a part two just drop
A one CH we need to if we need to do a a part two just drop a one in the chat I see my good brother Ron Walker from the Coalition of boy Coalition of schools educating boys of color again doing some amazing based work so you guys drop your
Questions in the chat drop a one in the chat if you would like us to host an additional session um see our good brother uh Marty rir from the Jord McNair Foundation um brother Marty and his his wife I went to high school with his wife
Um his son was a division one college football athlete and he passed out I mean he passed out on the field and uh and passed away um so we’ve seen a number of young men who have passed away uh involved in sports so he’s written a book about that experience of
Losing a um a child who a St athlead and so that’s a great another great uh uh resour brother brother Marty put your website in again and so let’s see what questions we have coming in again drop a one if we need to do a part one a part two two part
Three um because of our Palace of indicated training is super important um men’s circles men’s groups are throughout Co I was part of a men’s group run by Dr Henry Gregory who uh Dr Janice ston and I know you know uh we were doing CH gong in our in our men’s
Group uh every other Saturday and it was something that the men look forward to and so uh the men’s group approach is critically important I’m heavily involved in rights of Passage as a way of life and so uh in the city of Baltimore we’ve scaled up our wrer
Passage work uh and again doing some amazing work any other questions don’t forget obari oh brother obari cman in Chicago obari kopman uh doing some amazing work uh using using drumming uh which is a which is a technique that we use as well as well as
Doing yoga so y’all there are folks that are even probably in your local community that you may not necessarily know about uh but I think that the work is being done we have to figure out more ways to collaborate and have these conversations to really kind of
Strengthen the work across the field cuz nobody is coming to save us y’all we we we have to be the ones that our ancestors have prayed for yeah and and I I reverly like that comment and and and please excuse me excuse me David I like
That comment um that Dr Janis uh said and I think our uh White Brothers and Sisters uh and others need to hear that that we’re not trying to start a revolution we just want the ever illusion right um because we are uh Latinos Hispanics are going to be the
Majority population black numbers will increase um the white population will decrease but they don’t need to be afraid they don’t need to be afraid it’s part of the evolution they’re being absorbed into us and we are all coming together that is part of the evolution Thank you we’re g we’re g to take some of these questions Dr Julian in Chicago I’m G put a Bar’s uh email address in the chat let me just find it Well Dr Stevenson do you have a Bar’s email not not where I can’t get to it easily so
Right Dr Julian shout out to you I cited uh you study one or two of the articles in my dissertation so I did my dissertation on um black fathers and raising daughters so shout out to the work that you’re doing and Dr Julian I’m G put my email address in the chat so
You can email me directly and I will send you I will send you oar’s uh Dr cman uh email address all right now a couple questions in the chat let’s see um can you help me out here if I’m Miss any questions well there’s one question on the
Screen which is uh to comment on on post incarceration syndrome uh okay and the need for improved self-efficacy for black males Lisa did you want to go with that first um so I guess what I would um say is just with the post incarceration syndrome is that one of the things that
We recently did um with some funding from a New York division for Criminal Justice Services is to add some enhanced therapeutic capacity um to take care of and address um the um emotional and mental health needs of formally incarcerated men I think the thing that we have to
Acknowledge in our community is that the people who um um have been imprisoned for harm have also experienced great harm and so you know being able to um provide them resources and services that address the unspoken trauma that they’ve dealt with and encountered while being incarcerated plus all of the adjustment
Issues that come from um um post relase is really really um important um and a part from that if we don’t do that you know it contributes to the cycles of recidivism and you know and other things in the community that you know just really bring more harm in trauma and
Pain um so I’ll I’ll stop right there with that part of it um and and also just with post-traumatic stress disorder I think from my perspective um and I first heard Dr John Rich use this term in some of his writing but is that we have per persistent
Stress this persist list we don’t got no toast nothing it’s all ongoing so there’s never a post um for the men that we serve and I think that that’s something um to keep in mind um because they’re always in that current and ongoing state of either disassociation hyper vigilance hyperarousal
Avoidance um all those all of those things um as a part of their lived reality so I’ll just say leave it at that for now yeah I want to add to that uh I’m currently working with a gentleman who’s been in prison since he was 24 years old he’s now 65 years old
And we have managed to uh through evaluations and uh testimony move him from Death Row to life without Paro and then um from life without parole to life with parole and now his case is being considered for release um and I think it’s very important to note that the re available resources
Into which he can be released are all white just want to put that out there let y’all know there’s a whole area that is Untouched by any kind of activism the Innocence Project is something that we have drawn on frequently but that’s targeted to people who were proven innocent so there are
Resources okay there are resources that are available for people uh that are federally and locally uh funded for people who are released at the end of their incarceration but mostly our brothers and sisters are just let loose in the world and they have to find their own
Outlets they have to find their own recovery places I do get referrals for people who who say I’ve been out three years now and I’m about to lose it I saw your face on television I like what you had to say can you help me and I will
Take those cases every time because they have nowhere to turn and they’re not always welcomed in church because they’re judged because of the stigma so the post incarceration syndrome is not just a personal event it’s a community and a society event and as long as black men are blacking men
They carry the burden of that and as long as the black women are strong and vocal we are just as vulnerable as they are somebody told me early in my career that people don’t get mad at me because of my light skin whatever there’s some more words in that sentence um because I
Can take advantage of it and use it to speak boldly because somebody has to say we are human beings now my job as a human being is to help other human beings in need and you know there’s many a day when I’m alone so I welcome the
Company so let let’s do this y’all um extremely rich um wow dialogue I think the last question is um critically important I know it’s critically important for me because for over a decade I dealt with this issue of you know survivors guilt you know um some
Guys tried to rob me and one of my friends he was shot and killed I was at Morgan he was at Miles um I lived he died and for over a decade you know I um I blame myself for living and so let’s let’s let’s start
With Dr Jeff from we just going to go around super quickly we got some file comments y’all don’t go anywhere how do you deal with survivor’s guilt well well given uh the amount of time we have left I I’ll keep it very simple um understand that the Survivor guilt is uh your your
Spirit telling you that you were extremely lucky that it was not you and therefore you were kept alive for a reason and that reason being that’s Survivor guilt perhaps guilting you into making more of a success and meaning in your life to helping others and whomever
That person was who may have died in vain or for all the wrong reasons or whatever the case may be that you continue their Spirit by making a difference in the world that Survivor guilt is a reminder that you have to do more Lisa what are your
Thoughts um survivors um I love how you said survivors you know turning Survivor guilt on its head to make meaning um survivor’s guilt it you know it contributes it can contribute to a lot of self-destructive um um responses um to the trauma of of a loss like that um I
Think one is acknowledging it and putting it out there in the open and talking talking it through because so that we can start to see the the distortions where are the distortions at and then kind of really combating some of those irrational distortions and bringing it back to the reality over and
Over again and do and doing that making space for the emotional discomfort that will come with sitting in the fact that you are the one who lived and hopefully as you unpack and unravel some of those distortions we can get to a place of mindfulness and in that place deep
Gratitude because you are the one that lived and and now we move into the question of s I’m brother Tracy we’re gonna we’re going to end with you what what are your thoughts about um survivor’s guilt I think survivor’s guilt for me is uh you know feeling guilty over something that
You didn’t do um and while you know some form of guilt can result from you know our thoughts or our actions I think uh there’s also uh uh forms of why we did what we what we should have done how we could have prevented it um in my case I
Think that from the tragic events involved in the death of tra um that that you know I didn’t realize that this was out of my control and so the number one thing for me was just to seek professional help seek some professional help and getting me other
You know getting me to really understand that this was something that I couldn’t control um this was something that was an unfortunate loss for me but seeking professional help man that’s that that was how uh I I kind of combed the survivors guil I’m going to add real quick that’s
Why Daryl green program deep forgiveness exists because there is deep forgiveness to do when you have to forgive yourself and so ladies and gentlemen Dr Jeff has to run to another pointment that Jeff always thank you for heing the call whenever we need on your EXP
Expertise for looking at all of the ones that was in the chat we definitely got to do another two another Another Part Two or part three so I want to thank uh Dr Jeff bradia want to thank um Dr Janice uh Stevenson who is like a second mother to me brother brother Tracy
Norton uh always keeping uh your family in prayer and always honoring The Life and Legacy of of Trayvon Martin not Lisa good thanks for your deep in work and specialization around uh grief and loss uh been a powerful to want to thank fathers Incorporated again you guys can somebody
Just drop fathers incorporated’s website uh in the chat doing doing really deep end um Direct Services with work with men in Atlanta I was just in Atlanta You Kenny a couple weeks ago they serving about 800 uh fathers in the Metro Atlanta area on in times of local work and then on the
National level Kenny manages the national responsible fatherhood CL out so go to fatherhood.gov fatherhood.gov for research briefs articles webinars um again y’all there’s just some amazing work you know being done across the country and then shout out to my colleagues at the moan Institute for research and policy uh please download
Our newest uh report which looks at uh Reflections motivations Trends among lowincome uh fathers in the npv U community in Atlanta so ladies and gentlemen there’s some some serious work being done um let’s figure out ways let’s figure out ways to love each other more let’s figure out ways to
Collaborate um because no one is coming to say was I want talk about the Dory L aravia University in Philadelphia I’m just all of the folks who’ve attended um you guys have a super powerful day and and continue to inspire and breathe life into our community thank you
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