All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to Us you’ve reached the internet’s home for all things masonry join on the level podcast as we Plum the depths of our ancient craft and try to unlock the Mysteries dispel the fallacies and utilize the teachings of freemasony to unlock the greatness within each of us I have you now [Applause] that is our new intro and welcome to on the level podcast with the creator of The Amity app co-creator creator however you want to put that Jeremy Barnes Jeremy welcome to on the level podcast we had you for like five minutes once and The Taste was
So delicious we needed a full meal with Jeremy Barnes so welcome welcome to the show it’s good to be here Chris how what’ you think of that intro little while I thought I thought it was really interesting with all the sound effects in the background half of them I did not expect you
Know are you the Wilhelm screen have you heard no not directly no okay there’s a scream that was recorded in the 60s for a western movie that hollyw has become like a Mainstay of Hollywood they just always use the willhelm scen whenever somebody’s falling off something or getting blown
Up they throw in the willhelm screen most popularly done by Star Wars uh when you see Storm Troopers falling off you hear the willhelm scream so it’s that makes a lot of sense actually yeah there is method to that Madness so thank you for being on the podcast again we had
Great fun meeting you in DC and uh you teased us with some Masonic facts that I really would like to explore further which one well you left me hanging uh because you actually popped in while we were recording with someone else and let us know that you yourself raised one of
The actors from the Jaws movie and many other movies uh would you care to elaborate at the get-go on that story because I’ve been dying to hear it ever since yeah for sure sitting with you DC so it’s it’s worth saying first off that that this was uh a it wasn’t a one-day
Conferral but it was a it was a masonet site ceremony right so for for folks that don’t know what that is um it’s it’s a I guess you could say it’s a oneperson Grandmasters class sort of thing right um you sort of go through some basic education and you get the
Obligations um but it’s a relatively fast ceremony it doesn’t include the whole you know get up and go around the lodge and that sort of thing um and so this was being done on that day for now brother Richard dfus who of course is famous for lines like we’re gonna need a
New a bigger boat from Jaws right yeah oh Close Encounters of the Third Kind well everyone will know him from that movie he just uh just released I think last year a movie about an astronaut where he’s an older astronaut going into space um I haven’t seen it but uh it
Looked pretty good yep yep and so with Bill Murray one of the greats he played that you know straight man psychologist to Bill Murray’s craziness he’s a great actor well and and here’s the interesting thing right so so you’re absolutely right he’s he’s a great actor and I had
You know I was the master of my Lodge at the time I believe if my memory serves or or recently out of the East and um you know I conferred a lot of degrees and and you know was was pretty well versed in in the ritual but I had never
Never given a confered degree on an actor and that may sound strange but here we were not many of us have really well and and so so here we were in this Auditorium right at the Scottish R of DC on the floor and there’s 500 seats and
They weren’t full or anything but it was like it was a stage right right and and every and and he’s there of course blindfolded you know um and every time I’d say you know well blah blah blah you know he would sort of like take it in
And and give it back to me like blah blah blah and I’m like you this is my show stop it you know I’m acting here buddy this is my show it was the weirdest experience just to have what you say given back to you better you
Know yeah uh and I mean really in that moment I was like wow okay acting is a thing like I you know because he obious he didn’t know the words in advance and it didn’t matter what I said right just right back at me that’s so
When was this oh man uh you know it was probably in the 2008 2010 time frame I I don’t remember exactly all right so yeah do you know what lodge he was actually becoming a member or or he became so so the way that it works is you become a
Masonet site and at that point at least in DC uh but I would expect this is fairly common um you become an unaffiliated Mason right if the same sort of thing as having a demit right you’re a Mason but you don’t have a membership yet and then you pick a
Membership and so he actually became a member of my Lodge bomic Lodge number five so he’s perpetually on the books with us he became a Perpetual member well we’re all we’re all Perpetual members you are yeah yeah that’s the only way you can join my Lodge interesting yep so in the jurisdiction
Of Florida the Perpetual membership is tied to recurring funds the lodge is going to receive because of Investments is it it the same in bomic Lodge uh ish um we don’t have a Grand Lodge level Perpetual membership structure um but any Lodge that chooses to do that they I
Mean really they can do whatever they want with the money we have a separate Perpetual membership fund that I’m actually Trustee of right now um we invest the funds for income and the income from that fund goes to the lodge to either offset or fully pay for the uh
The Lodge’s activities based on you know what the budget is for that year and the Master’s plans fascinating and what year were you master of PTO M clod uh I was Master in 2009 nine and then you were secretary for some time after yeah yep well I I
Was Master and then I left the East and became a trustee of the lodge uh and then I left that after three years became secretary for three years um then took a little bit of a Hiatus and now I’m back as one of our Perpetual membership fund trustees so you got out
Just before coish somewhere around there um 1819 yeah more like the 15ish I mean 9 12 yeah like 15 is when I stopped being secretary and but I mean you know I’ve always been one of the more active guys it’s kind of weird now being one of the
Older Past Masters in the room I’m like I don’t I don’t have enough gray hair I know I saw well I saw that because I was there for this most recent installation and you were clearly heavily involved in the entire Affair it was a little more
Crazy than normal you guys bring a good contingent it was a great time yeah we had fun I mean it was really great time in Florida we’re not accustomed to having alcohol uh at these Lodge event so that was something we were trying not to overdo as Masons we’re like what
That’s what the junior warden’s for I assume you heard uh Texas just allowed that at their annual from what I understand it’s up to each Lodge right they can choose to allow it in their bylaw or not at the L yes the the interesting thing is they have a specific provision in the
Amendment that was passed that prohibits alcohol either in a meeting or four hours before a meeting right so wow they they they I think it’s a good idea they they purposely said look the idea is you shouldn’t be drunk in Lodge correct but if you want to bring a beer after Lodge
That’s now okay which is a I think a sensible way to start down the path you know absolutely I mean in England where they have bars in their Lodge building I assume that’s how they do it nobody’s getting loaded before the meeting they probably save it for the after yeah the
Bars are not usually even open before the meeting right so that’s very sensible yeah and well they they actually sell alcohol there so in in DC I think much like in Texas um you can’t sell alcohol unless you have a license right but if I bring alcohol and I give
It to people you know my friends effectively yeah no big deal yeah and that’s also fair I think right I I would love to see Florida go down that path I think it’s a little too Progressive for us we’re uh I don’t know Florida’s just a little different we we cling to our
Ways a little harder than you are far from the only ones I will say yeah I’m sure well you would know better than me I’m only now getting out into the world you know I’ve relocated myself to South Carolina okay and as as the podcast gets a little more exposure I’m getting to
Know the jurisdictions a little bit better and um it’s just fascinating because uh it’s rarely good news uh all you hear is these horrible things about The Grand jurisdictions in these different areas and uh California I’m now hearing things about and it’s getting a little I’m sure it’s always
Been this way it’s just uh that saying ignorance is bliss is it’s more accessible now yeah maybe that’s it because there are so many of us out there talking publicly there’s so many podcasts now and people writing blogs and stuff it I think it’s good that you
Know that we need to shine a light on all of this stuff and hopefully that leads to like what’s happening in Texas reforms for the better checks and balances being put in place and um maybe not allowing people to do these things in the shadows the way they have for
Decades well I’ll I’ll offer actually this is one of the things that we have always hoped for with Amity with respect to recognitions right um you know I mean I don’t want to throw anybody under the bus but there are certainly parts of the world both in the way that the culture
Operates and otherwise you know where it’s easy to say oh hey recognize my Grand Lodge I’m your buddy uh and that is very different from a clear transparent process of well who’s this Grand Lodge where did they come from where was it founded what’s the history
Right and and as Amity has grown we’ve been able to make that process a little bit more transparent so if you know if there’s a jurisdiction with two grand lodges you can actually make an informed decision instead of recognizing the first one that has the money to show up
At your door and ask for the favor right that that begs the question when you have the information in front of you in black and white why aren’t you doing the right thing uh that question you know if I can go down a slightly related path I would
Offer a great example is Brazil right behind the United States we have about 95 Grand lodges in the US Brazil is the highest with about 60 some odd and the reason is because historically there was the Grand orian of Brazil and that had the entire country and each Brazilian
State had a district Grand Lodge and then people got pissed off at them and Grand orian started you know coming up and basically it was a situation of well we want self-rule right we’re we’re our own State we’re different than the state on the other side of the country we want
Our own and so now they had a district Grand Lodge in the grand Orient well then people started fighting within the Grand orians and now you also have about 20 or so Grand lodges oh right and so in in Most states in Brazil they have the district Grand Lodge of Gob they’ve got
The grand Orient and they’ve got the Grand Lodge and in the past two years the confederation of grand orians and the and the conference of grand lodges have you know mended fences and they’re all recognizing each other most of them are all on good terms with the go just
Because they are and so you now have about 60 obediences in Brazil and the Americans look at that and go I don’t even know what to do right right so it’s it’s rarely uh you know a nefarious problem can you elaborate on the difference between a grand Orient and a
Grand J Grand Lodge I’m not one’s called Grand Orient and one’s called Grand Lodge there’s really it’s just a name that’s it okay same te makes sense not really you know you really do in Latin America see a fascinating um uh history a significant number of grand lodges
South of the US were actually chartered and founded by the Scottish right really so there workings are completely different they call those red lodges correct in here they do yeah here they do uh there they’re just lodges well u a past Master my Lodge his home Lodge is in Puerto Rico and his
Grandfather came to visit our lodge and he was wearing a red apron and he said yes it’s a Red Lodge and then someone told me we do blue Lodge work because we’re more associated with the York right whereas those lodges are more associated with the Scottish right or
See it all depends yeah I I will offer Michael my co-founder of Amity is a member of independent Royal Arch lodge number two in New York and their claim to fame is they’re one of the few lodges that actually like historically has conferred the uh Royal Arch degrees
Right and so their aprons are red because of their Royal Arch history but they’re York right you can’t really so in the US you can’t really say York right right that’s we’re Preston web right but our our lodges are not we don’t our lodges don’t go up any branches right like for
Example in Mexico the ones that were start started by the Scottish right are Scottish right lodges because they go Scottish right after the blue Lodge and they don’t go York right meanwhile the York right lodges go you know chapter Council Commander they don’t receive the Scottish W degrees right so they
Actually can say that they’re York right or Scottish right in the US we’re blue lodges and after that we can do whatever we want we can choose to go on both sides right right yeah and most of us do uh I have for sure and uh I found it it
Fascinating to see how they handle the same content in different ways that was one of the most interesting things when I joined the fraternity because I was a very I wanted to absorb it all um my family was very conservative anti Freemasonry and the argument I kept
Getting is you don’t have all the degrees so you don’t know they’re keeping you’re not a 99th degree lizard Mason yeah yeah so I’m like get me all the degrees I want to see where’s the where’s the baby in the snake eating and all this stuff where is it I want to see
It and uh so I did everything every degree and every appendant body that I can get obviously there are some that I can’t because they’re awarded as um you know for various things uh and so now I get you don’t have that one so that’s
Where it must be and I’m like oh right right that makes sense they wait until you’re 90 to give you the world order changing stuff that makes perfect sense not you know me in my 40s where I could do some damage I my my favorite thing lately has
Been something I saw on Reddit it was you know some conspiracy theorist posted this thing that showed declining Masonic membership right and said well no wonder the world’s going to hell the Masons are losing all their members they don’t have the time to run it anymore the new world
ORD is crumbling wait a minute yeah I mean anybody who joins the fraternity you know we were talking a little bit behind the scenes before we started about Grand jurisdictions and stuff and you see that it’s like no way the the the organization and communication cooperation that would be
Required is far outside the grasp of our fraternity to actually well I mean just in general you know you look up statistics on how hard it is to keep a conspiracy theory you know I mean the only private idea is the one that’s never left your head so if you’re really
Going to say that the United Nations effectively with a few million people can keep a secret good luck you know right right you know and oh by the way let’s indoctrinate them all to do the right thing yeah but only the small one you know small group is going to do the
Absolute wrong thing yes that’s right and for what purpose I don’t know I don’t know great question money you don’t need that to to to make a lot of money uh lots of companies are doing things to make money behind the scenes you don’t need new world order to do
That so I I did want to talk to you specifically about your claim to fame in freemasony which is the emity app Oh I thought you meant the Dan Brown thing oh there’s more you didn’t mention Dan Brown didn’t but wait I I do have
Both of my hands back I think you did mention that that that you were uh Brown cut off my hand in my year yeah yeah what what the hell is that about so so uh let me tell you the story of how I got a rubber chicken thrown at me in the
East you were sitting in a stated communication and my secretary threw a rubber chicken at me please elaborate so so I I’ll try not to go on for ages about this but it’s it’s a fun one so um yeah I I said I was Master in 2009 and
Um for those of you who might be Dan Brown of files you will remember that The Lost Symbol came out in 2009 okay and Dan Brown was actually in my Lodge unbeknownst to most of us at the time and so the only Lodge well he came to
Visit he’s not am Mason he came to visit doing his research because remember that book was about Freemasonry in Washington DC and in in the the final scene the bad guy falls through the ceiling in the house of the temple I mean it’s a whole thing right yeah um and so the only
Lodge named in the book is pic l number five and so we were actually part of his his research and so when it talks about the blue pediment over the Master’s chair you know that’s from my Lodge um and the it’s not really a protagonist but
One of the main characters and and on purpose actually the titles were completely screwed up it’s like effectively like Scottish wght Master of the Universe oh by the way also master of atomic LOD number five and you’re like what he did that on purpose yeah
Just to to not like he didn’t want to out everybody too much really talking about real people if you Ed real titles right he he did a lot of research behind the book um I never got to meet him but you know how’ you get your hand cut off
By him then well that’s what I was just about to say so so the main that main character uh who was attacked in the book and ended up like you know in I don’t know breathing underwater sort of in stasis whatever was the master of bomic LOD number five and in the very
First scene of the book what you see is the bad guy going into the capital and he’s got a cast on and I mean I’m you know you’ve read the book you’re you’re making it up there’s not been a movie about it but he’s got a cast on and in
That cast he’s got his hand pulled back and there’s a fake arm that he has on a or a fake it’s not a fake hand it’s a cut off a severed hand that he has on a little wooden stand and he ends up putting that in the capital and you know
Putting the fingers a certain way however it is um and that was the hand of the master of bomic Lodge and you were the master of the year he came to research for his book hence exactly your hand here’s here’s the thing I was on my
Way up to uh with my junior Warden I was on my way up to New York because we were both groomsmen in my senior warden’s wedding and I get this call from the grand secretary who says hey Dan Brown is doing a an interview with Matt low uh
On MSNBC and they’re looking for someone to lead in for the interview can you come down to the studio right yeah and I said oh man I’d love love to because he’s like oh it’s in like two hours I was like I love to I’m driving up to New
York you know for my senior wen’s wedding uh and he says all right well let me ask but I think you can do it over the phone okay great calls me back no problem do it over the phone pull over at this time call this number they
Just need a headshot of you and and it goes a little off the rails here but it’s it’s fascinating so I sent them this head shot and two hours later I pull off at a rest area on the New Jersey Turnpike and you know I did the
Interview and only found out later so this was 2009 I forget what year well it would have been four years earlier uh maybe five that Gerald Ford died right Gerald Ford is the last president who was a Freemason right and he laid in state in the capital in the capital of
Retunda and when that happened a large number of DC Masons over the course of the weekend or whatever it was put on our regalia and went to pay our respects to Gerald Ford well let me ask you a question about that did you have to get dispensation from your Grand Lodge to
Wear your regalia in public or so yes we did have to do that but there was no like you know I mean look if you’re being a Mason and you’re not defacing the you know doing something stupid like it’s not a big deal it was obviously a a
Clear rationale yes yes so you know it was definitely something we were allowed to do so you got to wear your Masonic regalia to the capital building yep and I at the time I was the junior Steward well here’s the thing you know we’re all worried about this intelligence agency that intelligence
Agency we’re talking about 2009 now right so what 14 15 years ago within the span of that hour and a half since I sent them the the head shot what they’re playing in the background on TV as I’m sitting on the hey look at that as I’m
Sitting on the um apparently if you go like this that that’s cool um so so what they’re playing on TV while I’m on the phone on the New Jersey Turnpike is my video footage from when I was paying my respects to Gerald Ford oh okay like they they looked up my face in
Their in their system and found me which was creepy to start with oh that is then they’re playing all these like guys in hoods like opening and closing doors and like you know so there’s all this this weird stuff in the background I’m completely oblivious to and you know we
Talk a little bit about it and and at the end of the interview they’re like well you know do you have any death rituals and you know the first thing that pops out of my mouth is no it’s not like we kill chickens or anything you know and the conversation continues for
About 30 seconds and then it ends and they’re all chuckling as they go into the next segment and I don’t think anything of it you know great it was a fun interview I go up to to to New York um and I come back down and the next week is our state of
Communication and my secretary at the time de Dean clatterbuck was one of the most well-respected men in DC masonry to the point where one of the guys who worked in the Grand Lodge office had a picture of him behind his desk that said wwdd what would Dean do right nice chair of
The jurist Prudence committee the whole thing Dean knows how to be a secretary I’ll never forget my first meeting I looked at him and I said what else is on your plate worship brother secretary and he looks back and he goes it’s your Lodge worshipable I’m like yeah it’s my
First day I’ve seen we had a secretary like that that was also committee head of the jur BR Committee in the I mean it’s great it’s it’s a great lesson for the master but I wasn’t ready for it because Masters Masters are like that’s their Lifeline like right what what do I
Do and when they’re like it’s your Lodge it’s like oh my God I am this is my Lodge oh jeez lesson number one well so point point is he knew what he like he was a good secretary yeah right yeah and I look at him and I say you know worship
Brother the secretary is there anything else on your table because I learned at that point to like you know not what do we do next uh and he goes you know what worshipful there is and the people who were paying attention were like that’s a tone I don’t hear out of
Dean and he starts laying into me where will we just put this computer on my desk and I can see you’ve been mucking with it and like at this point the rest of the room is now looking and the red is just climbing my my neck and my face
Right and after like 15 20 seconds of I can’t believe you’ve been doing this you know what why would do something like at this I dare and he goes I’ve got something for you and he grabs this rubber chicken squeezes it Chucks it at me and so now I’ve got this rubber chicken
Going as it’s flying at me in the East and he goes that’ll teach you not not to say we don’t kill chickens oh my God he got I’m like oh good lord he got you all because Dan Brown cut off my hand and I didn’t have the foresight to
Not say something stupid that’s a momentous event for yeah it was Master but wow I mean we had a we had a great relationship he and I so you know there was there was no offense taken but but to be fair yeah you know I don’t know
That a lot of other probably not a good idea to throw chickens at Masters you know right you of a state of communication in in that that year we had about on average about 15 visiting non-masons come to our lodge for dinner every dinner wow I mean it was it was you know
We started with I think 13 or 14 in the pipeline and we raised almost 20 we were doing we do a degree on the weekend and then you know at lot like we were doing double and triple degrees I mean it was it was a it was a busy year do you think
That came from out of the publicity the lodge got because of conversations about this stuff in the news and your log we were the only one in the book you mentioned in the book right you know and it was a bestseller I mean like yeah so everybody was like I’ll join that LOD
It’s right down the street I’ll join that Lodge but so so that’s kind of what I what I mean when I say like I’ve had the most random career I clearly I did not plan to be in the East when Dan Brown released his book you know what I
Mean like that’s fate dumb luck at its best that’s fate that’s not dumb luck take it fate you were destined to be there you were the right man for the job see you bring you bring a very Masonic face I could see you being a great uh person to represent the fraternity
You’re very well spoken I’ve said this before he’s a he’s not an ugly man my wife will uh concur with that I told her I met you and that we were joking about it and she laughed and I was like you’re not going to protest she’s like oh no no
No I’m like okay all right you’re like wait a minute wait a minute I see where I stand like he’s not that goodl looking like she’s like I would like to reiterate what I said on my last stop into your podcast which which is I have not seen your wife
Since the first day I met her excellent great just want to be clear about that we’ll have to change that though uh we uh we had fun we should I don’t mean in that way I mean we should hang out as my my girlfriend might have some words for
That you’re we we can do a double date I would love that I kind of picked up that she was Hispanic yeah I didn’t get it at first but I did pick up later I where’s your girlfriend from she is uh half Brazilian and half Spanish spish like
From Spain from Spain Spanish yeah okay okay yep interesting so does she speak Portuguese or Spanish she speaks Portuguese she speaks Spanish she speaks English and a little bit of French Wow way to make me look bad yeah and she has to speak with you poor girl
Well I I do my best to keep up with her and Spanish and she is a a wonderful teacher so my Spanish is getting better every day that’s awesome a lot I know a lot of Spanish people are terrified of trying to speak Portuguese and it’s never I’ve never understood that it’s
Like okay between me and you you clearly have the advantage go talk to this person you know you’re going to pick up way more than I am I’m American here I can’t even understand uh you know PTA or whatever like you you figure it out I gotta tell you though man Portuguese
Sounds like Russian to me I like they’re very close but I my ear is not tuned for it you know what I mean it just I I don’t but doesn’t make any sense to me my wife is Ukrainian and so I speak a little Spanish because my
My my previous wife was Chilean so um my children learned Spanish I you know I’ve been in Chile I learned quite a bit of Spanish so um it’s easy because it is based on a common Latin kind of a framework sort of right but the Ukrainian and the Russian is it’s like
Chinese yeah there’s very few things that you can pick out of a an hourlong conversation that you could recognize a word um and you know to me um I grew up in America where my whole childhood Russia was always the bad guy every movie Russia was the bad guy in
Government and politics Russia were going to destroy the world and they had to be stopped and uh it was a moral thing the world against Russia and uh so I always jok with her that there’s no difference between Ukraine and Russia it’s the same thing right like but she
Always took offense to that can’t say that anymore especially now so now I’m aware very aware of the difference between the Russians and the ukrainians uh yeah but still I mean like I remember going to the Grand Lodge of Serbia last year and I mean what wonderful people
But you know they they they sort of use both the Latin alphabet and the cilic alphabet and so it’s like half the time you look at something you’re like what does that say like it just you know weird Cran that’s writing right well I told her you know
We were actually with you uh because the Ukraine was invaded around the same time we were at Migra that year yeah that’s true isn’t it yeah and um so I got it on the news and I said you know baby I’m I hate to tell you this but you’re
Probably not going to have a country by Monday because Russia in my mind from my childhood in this country Russia was the big bad right and she said you don’t know you’re talking about you don’t know my people and um here we are years later and that conflict is still going on and
For me as an American raised here with Russia as the big bad it’s very eye openening to see how incompetent that military actually is in reality and how aged their equipment you know they weren’t investing like we were all this time and you see how much spin was going
On in our movies and our politics all these years through the Cold War to make us believe they were this m massive Global power that they really aren’t anymore I mean I think the big take away from you is don’t mess with your wife she’ll she’ll be mess with my wife I I
Can tell you that especially you Jeremy Barnes now let’s talk a little bit about Amity you uh you are you and and another partner at least two of you I’ve heard you speak about run um a company that owns Amity the app for Masons where did this come out of like
Whose idea was this and and who had the coonies to actually say let’s do something about it I don’t know that I would use the word coones it’s probably the dumbest thing we’ve ever done but that’s neither here nor there really take some guts because most people aren’t willing to invest personal money
Uh in technology for an organization that’s as out of dat as ours you know I I think one of the most fascinating things that a lot of people don’t realize although we get mistaken for each other by by people that don’t know us well um Michael and I have
Actually known each other since we were three uh our our families were friends uh you know went to church together yeah a little bit on that last podcast you did explain that that’s fascinating see Faith you’re you’re your life is predetermined man you well you know what
You just you just reminded me I I’ll tell you how he became a Mason which is is again the most random thing so you know we were friends as kids until we were I don’t know six or seven and uh you know old enough to remember each
Other and then one of our families moved away or both or whatever and you know we were kids we didn’t have yeah you know we had phones with cords back then you know uh you know that was that and and so uh whatever 20 years 30 years later
He was at his mom’s house and his mom had on her refrigerator my family’s Christmas photo and in that Christmas photo I was wearing a belt buckle with all the Sonic symbols on it and Michael sees that and goes I’ve been thinking about Freemasonry I need to get in touch
With him and he asked his mom for my dad’s phone well his mom didn’t have my number so she gave him my my dad’s phone number yeah he called my dad who when I first became a Mason his response was isn’t that a cult and he sort of sort of
Warmed up to it but he’s never been like this is a great thing for you to do and so his first response to Michael was you don’t to talk to him about that and Michael’s like yes I do yes I do tried to block him from
Joining right and so so he ended up getting my number and both of us had I don’t know we were on the road for like I was driving down to from Baltimore to DC for Lodge he had drives of his own and so you know for probably six months
We went back and forth with each other just just talking catching up talking about esoteric stuff he’s a huge researcher and uh by the end of it goes okay fine I’ve heard enough how do I actually join I’m like well crap you’re a New Yorker so I call the only guy that
I know in New York guy named Joe croata who’s a New York Mason but also past Grandmaster of DC and he goes send him to my Lodge if he’s as good as you say send him over here and so he became a member of you know the second oldest
Lodge in the Grand Lodge of New York chartered in 1860 or no 1760 is this in the city or you’re talking up yeah yeah in the city and uh you know he he served as their master in I don’t know I think it was 2012 maybe um uh it was a little
Further after that I can’t remember exactly but um you know and and so like it’s just fascinating how even after all that right he became a Mason and then we were sitting in Shell’s back room which is the cigar bar down here in DC uh after a meeting of at an Iram Council
Which is you know something sort of a a New York kind of DC East Coast Council and uh just chitchatting and said hey look I got this idea and he goes I’m in let’s get it started you know it was your idea initially and you sucked into
The whole you brought them into this madness that you’ve created so so i’ I’ve sort of been doing this since I mean I I wrote one of if not the first member Management systems on the planet in 1998 um back when the internet was still young are you a programmer by trade what
Do you what what do for a little yeah no I’m I my my my classical training if you will is is as a software developer okay um although my my career is as random as my Masonic career but um you know it’s it’s uh yes I’ve been cing he’s a
Military liaison like none of that’s true I’m making it up I was gonna say come on now that’ll become fact but I I could see it being true you’re mystery man well but so so so I mean for sure the travel bug bit me early but you know I basically I I
Created that for my military fraternity at the time when I was in RTC never went in the military but I was in RTC and uh and then sort of dropped off for 15 years and became a Mason and sort of looked around after getting out of the
East and said I had this year this idea 15 years ago nobody’s done it yet why not and uh like I said I mean we probably started with the most complicated organ a in the world yes you definitely did but here we are yeah how many how many jurisdictions are part of
The Ed app now well we document 313 all the regular Grand lodes in the world um and about 285 are using the app in one way or another okay and you’ve got deep connections with certain jurisdictions like Florida you just took over what they were using a system uh not Amity
And I want won’t even say the name to promote it but they uh they decided to go with AMD and now um everyone checks their membership and other members through AMD to see if they’re actually in good standing with Florida and I believe hopefully this year they’re
Going to start paying their dues through AMD in the State of Florida many many have already in fact they have okay I’m happy to hear that because I I I’d prefer to pay my stuff online I don’t really have checks uh I gota go looking
For a check it’s a pain to write a check mail it I have to have stamps like this is so annoying uh let me well I mean a lot of people don’t even have checks right really I don’t I don’t I have to borrow checks from my wife uh in her
Account because I don’t have and then she’s like all right compensation I’m paying your dues come on yeah well you know how it is when the dues come rolling in 120 here 120 there 180 here 260 here all of a sudden you’re out $4,000 in dues y every year well the
Biggest challenge too is you know it’s it’s all due at least in the US a lot of it’s due around Christmas right right right and here we are trying to say oh well you know you should take care of your family and you should do all these
Things and look I mean life’s only gotten more expensive and you know one of the most expensive times of the year is when we choose to put our dues on you know so we’re aiming at things like how can a how can we make this easier for
You just click click click pay yes right how can we allow you to do this all at the same time and allow the organization to have visibility right your Lodge’s PayPal can’t be seen by the Grand Lodge from from a a per capita perspective
Right but on top of all of that you know what if we can say oh hey great you’ve got $1,200 in dues for the year why don’t we charge you $100 a month see that’s what we need to do I was just I was just talking to another guy in
Marketing um yesterday we were doing a podcast and uh I was telling him this is this is where we need to get to because the Scottish W the York right The Grotto the shrine my blue Lodge um it all comes at Christmas time or just after right
Before somewhere around there and for me it’s not that big of a deal but I can certainly imagine it is for a lot of people um and you probably got to get picky and choosy about what bodies you join because of that absolutely what a
Great thing it would be for all of them to share communication with each other and for me to just be able to pay $50 a month automated through my debit card and never think about it ever again you know how many more members you’d get in these appendant bodies proba prob than
We have today if we made it easier for them and a little more finan you know my wife isn’t going to complain because she’s used to seeing the $50 a month right but when at Christmas time you’re forking out thousands of dollars they’re going to notice and you’re going to hear
About absolutely so absolutely that’s absolutely is that something on the horizons for you you think to try yeah it is you know the interesting thing is and I believe Florida is one of these jurisdictions but there are some jurisdictions that do not allow uh anything but a full payment which I
Can totally understand um you know but there’s some there’s some math and and operation there to say okay well you know we’re now saving it for you we’ve got to give you statements every month you know there’s legalities around that and sure you know we’ll keep we’ll keep
It in trust it’s not like we’re using it to fund operations right you know but we need to know which one’s which who can we give you know which lodges can we give money to you know On Demand versus in bulk I mean you know so there’s there’s some I’m sure there’s technical
Some challenges there yeah because we don’t make it easy for Progress we certainly aren’t quick to adapt or adopt new technologies or ways of thinking uh you know our Grand Lodge I was I was shocked to hear that they were going to Amity um it was a big surprise
But there’s so much we could do to help these these jurisdictions like you know I was telling this marketing guy uh yesterday Jonathan Green who you met probably in DC he’s a big guy um he he did the Ring of the elite he was the young guy that did the elite wreath
Laying with the Grand Master and um we were talking about this how we could we could really Advance you know every the grand LOD should have the capacity to offer a website for each Lodge in its jurisdiction through the Grand Lodge because they update their information anyways it wouldn’t be terribly
Difficult to set up a system we’ve got little micro sites and all that content gets updated automatically as they updated in their system and everything looks the same and everything’s optimized for that region uh we need to get some Advanced some younger I’m not an agist okay it’s not
An old versus young thing I’m talking about mentally we have to get some people that think like a a younger person about change into these jurisdictions that are willing to take the steps to make this kind of stuff happen because it would help us grow our fraternity massively
Those kinds of uh investments in that kind of infrastructure is how they can support the growth in their jurisdictions instead of throwing money at lodges that have no idea how to spend it you’re just wasting well so so it’s you know it’s interesting we’ve taken a remarkably different approach than I
Think I would say almost any if not any Masonic platform out there and and it’s been purposeful on our part um but we’ve started with the members right we said we didn’t want to go the the Grand Lodge sales cycle three to five years right um plus stuff at the Grand Lodge level
Usually the first reaction to It is Well Grand Lodge put it out so I must hate it right right right and so we went to the members but what we have created is the opportunity for actually Grand lodges to benefit as well so you know you’ve mentioned a related item but
This is one of the new Florida du carts right the interesting the interesting thing is well there’s a couple interesting things say again that’s an RFID chip well it’s got a QR code on it and it’s got an RFID under an NFC tag underneath it right so you can tap it
It’s it’s solid metal one of my favorite Parts if you look closely we got the Mosaic pavement on the back nice very nice attention to detail because it it kind of looks like a lodge doesn’t it it does you got the alter in the middle you
Know like it’s so it’s it’s fun but here’s the thing for Grand lodges that sign up with us to have the Branded version because the the the normal version is just is just an Amity card yeah right but we actually give 10% of the sales back to the Grand
Lodge and so what you end up with whether that’s a donation to the charity whether it’s you know actual money of the Grand Lodge we’re trying to do our part to say excitement in masonry translates to benefit for the grand launch genius right because they don’t really they get
Money you’re bringing them money they’re paying attention to you now like whoa whoa whoa guys I don’t know how much it is but I’m I’m sure if they adopt it and make it well known it could be a significant amount of money to the Grand Lodge um probably annually if they they
Smart about it and those are things like I’m I’m amazed at what you’ve achieved because I’m aware of how difficult it was probably for you every step of the way and what you’ve been trying to do that’s also why we haven’t asked for permission to be honest that you know I
I think once people get to know us they realize our hearts are in the right place and we’re we’re doing the right thing but to be honest if we at every step of the way ask for permission from 300 Grand lodges we would get told no by
299 of them you know I created an App as you know years ago I was creating an app but it was far different than you know I wanted to just help out this is actually how we met remember it is and I had I was like this is how I am like there’s
Somebody that’s doing this I’m not trying to like reinvent the wheel here I want to success leave tracks and I want to step in your tracks so I called you I got a hold of you and I’m asking you for advice about this and uh I went as far
As to build this thing and it had a lot of cool useful features where you could um you can put all the if you know the senior Deacon rolling an Entered Apprentice degree you could check that off in your profile and then you could search the database when you have a
Degree coming up and say I need a senior de next Tuesday who within a three mile radius qualifies that I can reach out to right now and chat through the app and get him locked in rather than I have to call Joe because he knows some guys at
That Lodge who can ask those guys and now I’ve got a a messy process of communication but I made the mistake of taking some liberties with my ideas and I realized one of the things that Mason’s really is a challenge for them on the everyday level just every day if
I want to have my roof fixed I call up Zach and I’m like hey Zach do we know anybody that’s a roofer that’s a Mason ah yeah I think I think Gary knows somebody that’s a roofer now I got to get Gary’s number and call Gary well
Gary died two years ago and know I gotta find somebody else and I’m like Jesus man I’m just trying to help out a Mason here you know with my with my project and so I thought what a great idea to allow Masons to register their businesses in the app and then we could
Have a dat base and say I need a roofer oh he’s a Mason and look I know him and I can do business without having to involve 18 people and take six months and so I sent everything to the Grand Lodge and said what do you guys think
I’m about to release this the app never came out because Grand lad said no you can’t use masonry for monetary gains or whatever our digest says about that and I’m like well with all due respect uh I was just at my Lodge where they sold 18 businesses on place mats that are
Sitting at all the tables so I I thought I find it hard to believe that’s not you know we’re not no one’s getting paid here this is just a help Masons and it went up to The Grandmaster who interpreted our digest and said no I
Believe it means this and so I was so frustrated I just trashed the app and um had I had your coones and for a permission uh I would have an app on the marketplace and a lot of Masons would have been using and getting a lot of
Work done together uh but I still think it’s just I got a few screws loose it’s not going honest I mean you know that’s any entrepreneur has to be a little crazy you willing to do things the average person isn’t willing to do and uh take some risks that they don’t have
The fortitude to tolerate right well I was gonna say actually one of the best quotes about an entrepreneur that I’ve been told in in as as CEO working group and whatever the guy said the measure of an entrepr R preneur is how much pain can one take over how long a period of
Time now that’s such an accurate the more that is the better you’re gonna do yeah well think back to your to your entire Journey with this Amity project the hurdles must have been insane that you had to deal with you know the the simple the simple point to that is we
Still go all over I mean even last night I was at our our shrine meeting I’m the out of guard for almma Temple and you know somebody goes oh you know Jeremy created the am app because I had just given a presentation at the Scottish right and the guy goes what’s that and
I’m going it’s been eight years it’s been eight years I’m in your jurisdiction yeah right I mean and like we don’t take any offense to it but you know it’s it’s a Masons don’t uh adopt technology quickly that’s the issue you’re having um I’ve been to Brandon Lodge in the State of Florida
Brandon Lodge is what we call it’s Grand Lodge blue Lodge that’s where all our gold callers come from right now is Brandon Lodge and they have fully adopted Amity if you go to their stated meeting they have the QR code at the Tyler’s desk and they want you they
Ask you to check in through emed that you’re at that stated communication they’re really pushing Amity so I’m pretty sure everybody in that Lodge is well aware and has downloaded it and they’re actively using it but I’ve been to 30 other lodges in Florida and I bet
90% of their members have never heard of Amity until they went to Grand Lodge and you were adopted and now everybody knows that you’re associated with the Grand Lodge but they still don’t have your app and they don’t know what it is or how to
Use it so how do you how do you get to a a highly untechnical massive body of people when you have this really complicated you’ve made made it pretty easy your app does it’s not asking them to learn technology that much you make it pretty easy for the
Average guy to download check their membership and see if another Lodge is regular or not uh and I’ve seen you do at at the at the Grand Lodge you do presentations you have boo you’re more than willing to talk to anybody about how to use this stuff does that ever get old for
You these people constantly constantly acting like it’s so difficult and you’re like dude have you ever used technology in your life you have a phone right like you’ve used it You’ be surprised I’ve seen more iPhone 4S in in Mason’s hands then really you know oh you look the Pew
Research Center uh you know what two years ago now released a study that said it’s 85% of Americans have a uh smartphone and my following comment is the other 15 are all Masons like it’s probably true this is what it is but you know it’s interesting because there there are two things that
That I think are are relevant here one is we’re trying to move past technology right right and whether whether that is a card with a QR code or you know we haven’t talked about it but this this ring has the same NFC chip in it and can
Pull up my profile right you set it up once you don’t need a phone anymore right if you help I don’t want Amity tracking my location all over the place with my ring well it’s not I mean it’s not possible the ring neither here nor there but you see my point right okay
Don’t worry about the phone thing you help the old guy you know get his card set up or whoever it is that doesn’t want to use it and and off you go and now it’s you just you just tap it yeah right the the other thing is we’re
Actually uh in the middle of a redesign of the app right now because it’s been you know seven years and it’s had the same design um I’m really excited about it it’s looking really cool but one of the things that we’re moving towards is the abil ility to use the app without
Registering okay and some people will go oh my God does that mean all the information’s out there for free no it doesn’t we’ve gotten to the point where we have all these blogs and podcasts like the on the level podcast that are in the app and they’re also on Apple
Podcasts right you don’t have to be a Mason to consume this data EXA but really nothing in Amity is secret there’s nothing there that really is what what could an outsider see that’s Secret have it yet I would offer that there is plenty that is private you’re
Right that there are none of the secrets of Freemasonry there but I have no interest in for example allowing a nonmon to find an exact location of an of a lodge I personally think we give out too much data well it’s very easy for them to find that Lodge without the
App like you can just go to maybe in Florida well not in other places it should be easy for them to find a lodge should it it should be uh should it but that’s what I’m asking look at what happened in Texas where we had a brother
Get got killed yeah yeah right and there are there are a not small number of countries where you will have legal repercussions or may even you know have injury to yourself or family if they know you’re a Mason yeah right yeah we’re seeing we’re seeing arson all over the US and Canada you
Know I mean I’m a firm believer that it’s okay to know that there’s a lodge in a city and if you want to reach out then they can you know sort of vet you but remember and and not to go too deep into the ritual listen to what it says
In the first degree in most places certainly in DC um when you’re getting the lecture about what happened to you the rationale for wearing the Hoodwink and the cable toe was so that if something went wrong you could be led out of the lodge without ever seeing the
Form thereof mmhm right and so this is just my personal opinion right but without going into should we let the profane into our lodges not even that I I think it’s fair to say each Lodge should should be allowed to share their location if they want and yeah by
Default Amity should not be sharing a street address well as a marketing guy we need to be visible and searchable and findable by people that aren’t Masons if we want them to become Masons do we absolutely I do believe that and and it’s good to have differing opinions
Because we totally respect each other but I am thinking the no I don’t like you um well I like you but I I do disagree because I think that uh the location of a lodge or being in a lodge the thing is that we that’s when we bring people into the fraternity and
I’ve talked to hundreds and hundreds of people that are interested in joining we we always tell them we’re not a secret organization we’re an organization with secrets you can find the lodge easily it’s in the phone book Google it we have a Google place business listing we have
Our logo on the front of the building when you drive by we’re not secret it’s out there it’s public information and so to try to keep that information secret I believe only feeds into a lot of the negativity people outside the fraternity already have as a preconceived notion
About us that we’re nefarious and hiding things from them on purpose and uh so yeah I don’t think we should be I think it should that is totally public domain public information we’re registered in Florida on Sundays as a business each Lodge and so our addresses our home
Addresses are listed there as officers when you become an elected officer they put your home address my challenge with that is about identity theft and and I mean let me let me take it from a different perspective I mean so you know people say well what’s the difference
Between online banking and getting a check in the mail and in some ways obviously convenience has has you know overrun everything I’m about to say but but at a core level right I can hack your bank account from anywhere in the world sure in order to get the check
That went to your mailbox I have to be along the route of the post office or at your mailbox yeah right and so I would offer that in your community what you are saying in my mind is 100% correct MH right the simple fact though is you are not going to look for
A member in India or in Australia no right and so if you have some Rando dude who’s like I’m going to drive anywhere within 150 miles and go burn down the first Lodge I could find right yeah that’s a great reason to say well you know what maybe the digital footprint is
Useful to be a little bit different than the physical in the community footprint okay okay I can I can get on board with that and so so I would I would offer that you can share what we do without sharing our address or our home addresses or whatever else and from
A digital footprint the the good that we do as a craft can be highlighted yeah without sharing so much that we worry for our privacy or our safety okay and For Better or For Worse I’m on the completely digital side of this domain and I I think all of us are glad that
You are concerned about security uh very much I I’ve said before at least I’m doing this because I trust me yeah I think it’s good to have somebody very concerned about Security in a position that you’re and and not somebody like me he’s like hey screw it
It’s it’s all out there you’re just gonna have to live with it that’s right I would say by the way just for you know not to not to to to brag or anything but just for anybody that’s listening to to know my background I mean I’ve I’ve
Worked on some of the largest networks in the world um I for the last 12 years now I’ve held the the um certified information system security professional certification which is one of the highest uh it certific or it security certifications you can get um security
Is a passion for me and so is privacy um it’s something that we’ve built in from the beginning it’s one of the reasons that we started slower than we did right yeah um and it’s something that I’m always I always try and share with people because I think it should be the
Fundamental piece of how we approach things because you can always lower security it’s very hard to close the gate after the cows have left if you will yes absolutely now when is when do are you projecting your redesign will hit the app where people will actually see the different layout don’t you make
Me promise no no I know how that stuff goes are we thinking this is a this year thing or is this a next year thing for example oh we’re talking is this a this month or next month thing um we’re so so what I would encourage anybody yourself
Included is um send an email to support cop.com and asked to be on our beta tester list okay um sweet our our hope is that by the end of the month we will have a version out to the beta testers um and you’ll be able to basically
Switch between it like a different skin right you’ll go to your preferences and say you know use the 4.0 layout um so you’ll do a little test run and let them work out the bugs and Kinks and then you’ll roll it out on mass once you feel comfortable after that exactly well the
The other the other part of it too that that is worth saying is this is also about how long it’s going to take right so there’s you know we can do the first steps and make the front pages look good you know the the 15 levels down might
Might take a little longer you know well should should users expect any functional changes or is this mainly a cosmetic change that you’re rolling out um it’s first and foremost a cosmetic change um but that doesn’t mean that there are no functional changes I mean I mentioned I mentioned earlier the
Concept of um being able to use the app without logging in yes right you know but one one thing we’ve always struggled with is the fact that you have half of your profile on the status page and half of your profile on the on the um in the
In the you know profile page right right so we’re we’re looking at redoing things to to look more something like this right so you can actually see all your memberships in one place I mean look look at that amazing amazing photo of me makes makes me chuckle every time did
You actually grow beard out like that at some point oh no that was that was AI but I gave I seated it with a few pictures of my beard and apparently it decided that uh I was the bearded Wonder look a lot scarier with a full beard I
Have to say right much more intimidating uh actually one of my one of my favorite things was I I gave uh I gave a presentation on uh the future of masonic identification at the World Conference in Jerusalem in June and uh you know I lived for three years in
Mexico uh after well during and after the pandemic and as soon as the pictures came on I had this like big beard gray whatever and my friends in Mexico were like doctoring the photos putting like you know sombreros on me and go look it’s the Mexican in in Israel and I’m
Like oh guys come on I don’t do it because I don’t know how old you are but I’m 48 I’m actually going to be 49 this bu and um you’re only three years behind me or in front of me only three yeah but the three makes a big difference in the grace let
Me tell you because when I was your age I had this very nice salt and pepper thing going on and the ladies love the salt and pepper look but that doesn’t last long it turns pretty gray pretty fast and so now if I grow it out I just
Look old salt and pepper you know you know but the the most interesting man in the world did it pretty well yeah well you if I had unlimited money I wouldn’t care uh just you know right just just go platinum I’m also married to someone 15
Years younger who looks like she’s 12 so it’s not a good combination to have the old white beard and the 12-year-old looking girl together we get looks you know what I’m saying so I have to keep it trimmed down just for safety reasons I don’t want to get beaten up in
Public well you know I mean it’s tough because you know your your uh your home address is apparently on the internet because you’re amazing it is absolutely it is was all year left for three years in in see but again for me that’s just you know that’s a bridge too far that we
Don’t need right what’s more important that I can contact you or that I know your contact information well the contact information is public and they do put your email out there for everyone to see and that gets abused annually in the State of Florida every year we list
The new officers the scammers and let me tell you it works okay the scammer starts sending spoofed emails to all the members as if they’re the m Master of the lodge saying hey can you do me a favor and pick up a few gift cards before the meeting let me tell you my
Chaplain is 82 he came to a stated meeting last year and slipped a package into my jacket and I said Joel what’s this and he’s like that’s the cards you wanted and I said I didn’t ask you for any cards so I’m looking at it and there are 10 $100 gift
Cards and I’m like oh Joel did you get an email he’s like yeah I already I already did what you asked I took the pictures and sent the receipt picture and everything like like you asked and I’m like Joel you just lost ,000 man like quick cancel this call
Your company you need to get on it right now and uh you know because he paid with a credit card I believe he was able to get a lot of that stuff reversed and you know that night the lodge took a collection up to try to get him as much
Money as we could because he knew what had happened uh but but that’s just one guy in my Lodge I can imagine how many Masons are getting fleeced by these people who put our public information online and then it’s abused well and that’s the thing I mean
At the end of the day if if I can just send you a message directly right yeah why why is that necessary does you know what you wanted to uh you wanted to talk about something uh along the lines of the future of Freemasonry and I got an interesting one for
You let’s do so there’s there have been some some conversations lately not about anything that is actively happening that I’m aware of but I think the first step to anything is I’m sorry I’m a drummer it’s all right but you know the first step towards anything is is socializing and
Getting people comfortable with it at what point will we be able to have a lot meeting virtually well I know that there is a Scottish right jurisdiction that recorded their degrees and uses that as a way to confer them now have you heard of that yes Northern Masonic jurisdiction so it’s already being
Practiced in in appendant bodies in certain jurisdictions how long until it makes it to the blue Lodge how long until we no longer have live lectures well but here’s the thing I would offer that we are on the cusp of technology that would actually make it possible have you seen Ready Player one
Yes what’s the difference there is no difference right if you can guarantee that the important things happen here’s the difference that cost a lot of money I guess yeah but you know but the lodge is not going to pay for that right that’ll be part of an ecosystem that you
Know you pay a subscription for the uh actual Hardware to get virtual reality I mean look at that point if if all the kids are playing Call of Duty and they have their suits on and whatever else we’re just repurposing an existing expense it’s true I have two at
My house because of my kids and now I’m going to get a third because I think there’s a third generation Oculus now um and it is those are affordable you’re talking about $100 for a piece of equipment that would allow you to have a virtual meeting with
Someone like you’re there there are well I’m actually saying I think we’re on the cusp of um of of really haptic feedback right you know we could say well okay I need something on my foot on my knee on my hand on you know like there are a
Couple of key points but if you can if if that can happen right so when I don’t know what’s the opportunity it’s an interesting question for the non-technical listeners uh when Jeremy says haptic feedback what he’s talking about is physical touch Sensations yes yes the ability to get some kind of I
Can do something here and you feel it over there on your body somehow that would be a haptic sense and and we have it on our Apple watches right my there are great there are great uh implementations already that are that are making the rounds on the internet of people
Literally taking a pen and pushing something in virtual reality and they’ve created a um imagine uh you know almost like a bed of nails right you know but a bunch of basically Circ cylindrical pillars and if you push it the pillars go up or down to actually show what
You’re doing digitally right and so we can now create like a like a a Playdoh you know Tower yeah and on your end of it the physical pieces turn into what I created that is fascinating that’s it it sounds like science fiction but you know that’s science now it really is well but
It has implications for the deaf for the blind right there there are a lot of real applications for this other than well I mean look and if you go back to VHS betamax you know what was the tiebreaker well there’s already implementations of haptic feedback for sexual situations of right porn is doing
This of course yeah it always porn is always leading the way when it comes to technology always it’s funny how that works wait can we use it to have sex oh then it’s worth it let’s let’s bring it in here well but so so you say is the
Lodge going to pay for that and I’m going to say they the like porn’s going to pay like it’s like it’s like military hardware the government figures out how to use it and then we all get GPS for free right right right well you know another implementation that uh it wasn’t
My idea but uh brother Wishful Ramone Hernandez um who’s an architect of all I don’t know how he came up with it but it’s so simple he’s like I wish an Amity app I could open the app I could in augmented reality see a walk line for me
To practice my ritual work it would say go here and it recognizes that’s an alter so it knows when I should turn there you know what a great uh idea for you for the future Aug so so can I tell you something related that we’re we’re working
On so the Kansas Lazer research um and a wonderful brother named Alex Powers who puts on Kansas masonicon every year um which I would highly recommend great time but he has created a effectively a a kit that he can send to your Lodge and um it allows you to do 360 pictures of
Your Lodge right right and so it’s not quite what you’re talking about but I would argue it’s sort of halfway down that path you know we’re talking about integrating into Amity these effectively 360 tours that you see now in the real estate world yes right where you can
Walk through a building right and you know we do travel safely Tuesday and show off places I mean how cool would it be to literally walk through the lodge very cool because there are some lodges that are just amazing like I wish I could do that I see the photos and I’m
Like man I wish I could really see that place um and my Lodge in Sarasota is pink it would be very interesting for people to get to look around that place because I doubt you see any pink lodges anywhere well you should you should take some pictures next time you’re down
There so we could put them on travel safely Tuesday oh I’ll send you some pictures but I don’t know it’s going to stay pink for long the the new brothers seem pretty determined to get rid of that and uh well but you know what if you put the pictures up it’ll stay
Forever the internet never forgets we had a guy once um just visit from overseas or somewhere and he was so shocked by the pink he took video and he went live and posted on YouTube and he came back and he’s like I never got as many hits as when I posted your pink
Lodge video everyone wanted that thing so I came back to get some more views it it is that’s awesome apparently pink is a common color that was the rationale they used when they painted the whole place pink really I find it to be a feminine color in a fraternal organization doesn’t make
A lot of sense but you know who’s to you know the the um uh Shock Trauma in at the University of Maryland in Baltimore the everyone that works there wears pink scrubs because they used to have scrubs of a different color and what they found
Is all of the guys would go out to the bars after their shift and try and pick up women by saying well I work at Shock Trauma look I’m wearing the official scrubs and one of the guys in charge finally said this is enough you’re making us look bad you’re getting
Hammered and doing stupid stuff I’m making all the scrubs pink and now they go out to the bars because they wear the pink scrubs and that’s that’s they’re the badass guys that wear the pink scrubs so that’s great goes back to sex we’ll figure anything out everything we can lead it
Back to sex everything you know this guy I’m telling you about Ramon uh he can he can turn any we were one time looking at a room and he’s like you ever notice how a corner looks like a vagina and I’m like geez Jesus this man needs an outlet
You know when he start vaginas in the corner of a wall but that’s that’s the Hispanic they’re Latin they uh they love the ladies um I would like to I I don’t want to capitalize your time we’ve gone over an hour I don’t know edited this is
Definitely going to be over an hour and uh I respect that we’re recording in the middle of an afternoon on a Friday so I appreciate your time um and I I know I am dealing with a few fires that I need get back to that’s right I can imagine
You do that’s why I don’t want to keep you but I I don’t want to just ask you the same questions that you always get asked like talk about the future of technology and this and that what I want to end this on is um you now going to be
Out on video and audio worldwide a lot of different kinds of Masons are listening you have a very unique perspective on our fraternity between all of the travels you’ve done in your life even non-masonic and and the Masonic travels you’ve had and the the many lodges and
And Grand lodges you’ve had to deal with I say it like it’s a bad thing you’ve gotten the opportunity to deal with let me rephrase that and uh so what would you say to the average brother out there um based on your experience if you were
To die tomorrow and get hit by a truck what nugget of wisdom would you like to give to the average Mason that’s just living the average Masonic life out there in the world any kind of M you like to leave them with yeah for you
Know for for me and and I I think this is something that’s come naturally to me because I I love it so much anyway but I would say leave go somewhere leave right get out travel really well so so we are so attuned and I think we said it before
We started recording but we’re so attuned to say everything is the same everywhere yeah right but it’s not the the whole thing about the ritual can’t change no innovation in masonry I can’t remember if that was Preston or web but the dude added it to his ritual so that
He could sell more rituals so nobody because nobody could buy anybody else’s but his because it couldn’t be changed right we’ve been spouting a corporate jingle yeah yeah right I don’t know what your ritual says about the word of the first and the word of the second but I
Got to tell you mine puts them in a certain direction and what and and it says people that use it in a different direction are not real Masons and then I go to the Grand LOD of Iceland then I’m getting tried and they’re like What’s
The Word of the first and I say blah and they go that’s wrong really and I’m like look I know I’m a past master and all but I thought I got that one right and he goes well I have an idea what’s the word of the second and Meanwhile we’re
In the Grand Lodge building right this is not like a yeah I’m not standing on the street where everybody can hear me right I’m I’m in a Tyler’s investigation I go okay great here’s the word of the second he goes oh you’ve got them backwards and I’m like really I’ve got
Them backwards they actually you’ve got them backwards well I could see that mistake because it happens it’s in jurisdiction of Florida and I’m sure it’s different in every jurisdiction but I’m only speaking of the one I have the most experience with I have a gold card and an a brown
Card which means I’ve been tested And I memorized all the stuff and proven that I can repeat it so I’m I’m familiar with the work and um the way you say something to a candidate going through the degree and the way you say it when you repeat
It when you give the lecture about the degree can be different and so I’m talking fundamentally what we do in the first they do in the second yeah right like the actual words the most one of one of the most important things it’s a
Pillar of who we are as Masons we do it differently in different jurisdictions how does that make sense well but here’s the thing there’s a fascinating story about it which I learned from Bob Cooper the the the grand historian ameritus of the Grand Lodge of Scotland um by his
Telling back in the day when there was only the Grand Lodge of England the problem was everybody was learning all the secrets even non-masons what are we going to do about this and they said on on this day at 9:00 a.m. the words are going to swap that’s what
It is we’re going to do this it’s going to be more secure and of course as you might imagine they caught a lot of people out you know people were wandering you know like coming to to meetings hadn’t heard the news and you know screwed up right but this was not
The only one but this was one of the reasons why the Ancients or excuse me yeah the Ancients Grand Lodge popped up because they said hey now you can’t just change the ritual like that you clearly do not respect masonry enough we’re going to start a new Grand Lodge and
We’re going to call ourselves the Ancients and you the moderns because you’re the ones that are changing everything right yeah and so in some jurisdictions around there they still use it the other way so right but it goes back to your question for me the beauty of what we do
And how to really learn what we do and implement it in a way that everything from tolerance to Brotherly Love is to go out of your own skin go out of your own place and realize that just because you do it differently to get the same results doesn’t make you any less my
Brother right I love that that’s my passion right I love how how we are such a patch were quilt but we all do the same thing same same but different yeah and the goal the ultimate goal like you said whether you call this word the secret word of this degree or that
Degree doesn’t really change who we are as Masons not really or why we’re here or hopefully what we’re getting out of it and uh I think Mackie said it um we aren’t a religion we’re not trying to prove any of this is fact if you start
Trying to prove the HTH took a crap in this place on this day you look insane um we’re Masons like these are moral lessons and and the point is to make ourselves better through the fraternity exactly and whether you say this word that word or stand up or you
Don’t stand up when you say something really shouldn’t matter to you really as a Mason and look at society today the the lessons that we are learning are critically necessary in our society and if we get all hung up on Chris you can’t possibly be my brother because you
Swapped the words right I mean look we need to learn about each other I’m not saying that we should just take anything for granted and we can do whatever we want the ritual you know but like God if we can figure out how to love each other even though we use the words
Backwards well it’s like when I came to your installation um when the way that you level your Lodge is quite different than the way Florida levels their lodges and I said of everything I saw this is the one thing I wish I could present as a new legislation to change our work and
Everyone said don’t even say it to anyone that you want to change the work and I said but it’s it’s better it’s no innovation it’s actually projecting the meaning of the event better than what we’re doing is uh because when we stood together uh and level The Lodge in your
At your installation I felt something and I knew so so just just to make sure that everybody who’s watching listening knows what you’re talking about in in my Lodge at the end of every meeting right we’ve got pews and so you know we have several levels of seating and all
That sort of thing when the master and this and the wardens come down and you know how should Mason me act in part as they come down the rest of the lodge all comes down to the floor and metaphorically we are standing on the same level at the close of the lodge
Some other lodges do like a chain of Union that sort of thing same type of idea we’re all together not in our seats a few levels up and that sort of thing so in our jurisdiction we use our words to alliterate that we’re leveling ourselves together it’s far different
Than the experience of physically leveling ourselves together I think I never saw it done that way and I felt I had goosebumps and I felt like hard something in that moment and it stuck out to me uh so much that if I could change the work that’s the one thing I
Would change in Florida it because that was beautiful part of the ritual you did a lot was different a lot but to me that that was the one thing that I thought you guys really hit the nail on the head compared to what we’re doing in Florida
It’s it’s something we love to do and you know I maybe to to to end on a controversial note if you will you know one of the things that we also do in DC um is for at least the last 15 years all of our Grand Lodge officers we do have
Ornate aprons but we all wear white aprons the grandm on down yeah right and and we view it as a way to say things like oh hey we’re all entered apprentices or it’s you know we’re on the level and that sort of thing I I have to tell you my um my controversial
Opinion is if I had you know a magic wand for a day I would take away all past titles thank you thank you right because in in my opinion and and look I DC you can’t spit without heading three past Grand Masters and by and large I respect them all
Highly you know this is not about individual people but for me Scotland does it this way you’re in the office and then you’re a brother I love that right yes like yes we should give the office the respect but I shouldn’t carry around a worshipful for the rest of my
Life because you know what that makes me better than everybody else in some eyes different than them on a different and how are we saying we’re on the level if I’m wearing this big old apron and you’re calling me worshipful and genu flecting in front of me and like no I’m
Just I’m just a brother I’m a wrong anything I could not agree with you more I shared a post that someone wrote to that effect on the on the level page and it was controversial people were like this is ridiculous you need to respect it and other people were like I kind of
Get it it’s controversial idea uh but imagine if instead of introducing a person by his title we introduced him by his character traits this is Jeremy Barn who served as Lodge in this year and served as Secretary for these years and has done this for the eternity and that
For theity it’s going to let people know a lot more about who you are as a Mason than worshipful and and I I would I would say that’s actually something I’ve started to do in my language and changing your language is a great way to start that
You know I wasn’t master of my Lodge in 2009 I served my Lodge as its master in 2009 subtle difference it’s a big difference it’s a huge difference but to to me you know the the the fascinating thing and and it’s even more in DC um I
Had a dear friend who’s since passed away his name is Jim Laughlin and he was one of the things that I like to me Jim was masonry like when when he knelt at the altar during a degree and vouch safe thine Aid Almighty father you know like
His voice was yeah you know and I knew him as Jim it took me like five years to realize he was one of the preeminent IP attorneys in our country he was just Jim and and to me the question of whether or not my title should lead is simple because if you
Don’t know me I I don’t believe that I that’s what should lead but when you get to know me you’ll realize what I’ve done earn title yeah right but but that whole thing is part and parcel of are we in a lodge to to to know each other and
Become brothers or for some other reason you know it causes more harm than good the title I believe it incentivizes I look and I see it internationally right I mean most of these most of these guys that are at the international level are wonderful wonderful human beings amazing people
But there there are some who you know it’s like they wear a flying carpet and you know I mean you’re like you are you you’re here because you wanted the title how much more gold can I put on myself can we get more gold can I get a gold
Helmet can I get gold shoulder pads what can we do like I mean I you know I got to tell you like I I mean the grandmas of South Africa John Smith such a such a humble guy I’ve seen him several times in different jurisdictions you know but
Like the epitome of a Grandmaster who really cares about his Grand Lodge who’s doing the right thing who’s I mean you know it’s it’s a it’s a privilege meeting these people yeah but you’re right people like him it’s rare he wouldn’t be any less if he got out of
Office and became brother and they want that these people who have accomplished this these great things in the fraternity and done so much good they just want to be a brother they don’t really care about their titles you know this you meet these people and they’re the least concerned with their
Titles uh it’s always the guy who hasn’t really what has he done I don’t know but he got the title and he wants to make sure he use it every time you say his name I I I want to be fair though too because I think I think we all have a
Journey for and I’ve certainly had mine and I am I have this opinion I would say out of maturity that I have that I have been blessed with through my association with Freemasonry right 20 years ago when I joined this fraternity I didn’t know any better and it was important to get
These accolades right and so I don’t want people to listen to this and go oh my God they hate me you know I think we go through this process and we have to remember that we talk in terms of smoothing the ashon and all these sort
Of things you know that’s part of it yes and it’s okay to be the the Brash upstart sometimes but you’re gonna grow out of it too and we love you anyway yeah well the fraternity needs their passion you know those people that are doing things for titles are doing
Things so I guess it it’s serving its purpose in some ways I just think we could find better ways to incentivize than meaningless titles and one of my one of my quotes that I’ll that I’ll just it’s always stuck in my head you know if you remember Norman Schwarz from
Desert Storm um he wrote an autobiography and uh for the life of me I can’t remember what most of it says but one of the things that he said in there was the higher the monkey gets up the flag pole the more you can see of his
Ass and you know I think we should all remember that because if we get to the top of the flag pole and say I’m the monkey in charge oh yeah we could see the whole thing you know like humility is a virtue remember the people that got
You there remember the new guys and in a lot of my speeches I because I’m talking to Grand Masters at like the world conferences say look you guys don’t get introduced anymore everybody knows you already right you walk into a lodge and like if someone doesn’t know you there’s
A problem yeah like think about your newest Master Mason how’s he gonna travel right who doesn’t know anybody doesn’t have your network doesn’t have your accolades doesn’t have your history and that’s who you’re with Amity you gave him the power to be able to travel comfortably without concern for losing his
Privileges yes safely right because it is it is a dangerous thing for us to have Masonic communication with unrecognized Brothers you there can be serious repercussions for that and as there should be I mean that’s important and it I think often times happens out of ignorance uh for new Masons for sure
Yeah totally they don’t even know the difference between Prince Hall and non- Prince Hall at that level at that point and um well you know common misconception is oh I recognize the Prince Hall in my grand jurisdiction I recognize Prince Hall which is absolutely not the case they have grand
Lodges just like we do and what would you say if oh I recognize the Grand Lodge of Florida therefore I recognize every other Grand Lodge in America no not so much this whole idea of recognition in itself is unknown to new Masons they don’t even realize there is
Such a thing as recognition or that if they see a masan of symbol that it may not be some place that they’re allowed to go they just don’t know um it takes time for people to learn that stuff in the fraternity um and you know having an app
Uh that anyone can download even a nonmon potentially in the future I think is great especially for family members um you know it’d be we get that a lot already I mean we can’t stop someone from downloading it right and then someone creates you know a profile
Because they want to become a Mason and they think that’s how they reach out right and you know I mean it’s like we have a variety of ways to catch that sort of stuff and and most times we do and you know but like there’s an opportunity here to say these people to
Your point even the people that are you know doing things for the title are still doing things they are yeah you know just because you signed up thinking it was the right thing yeah it’s the wrong thing but that doesn’t make you bad it means you’re trying right and
Some of them are bad don’t get me wrong you know it’s always funny to me when it’s like I’m The Grandmaster of England thank you for outing yourself you know like no you’re not well um just to to end this you your wisdom was get out travel experience Embrace absolutely embrace our
Differences don’t shy away from them love everybody as a brother and uh I I grew up with u my mother always told me that the best cure for ignorance was travel um that only seeing the same people uh and having the same food and the same experiences your whole life
Makes an ignorant man and she told me and to be clear I don’t mean everybody has to be able to afford to go to Australia right right go to your next your next District go an hour away go to the next state in the US within you know
One to three hours a lot of us can get to a different state right it’s it doesn’t have to be far even the next Lodge over or the one that meets in your same building that has a different history it you can learn so much and the
Every Lodge has its own culture its own personality its own Vibe and feeling and it’s a pretty cool thing to walk into a lodge that’s exactly the same but totally different it is yep and the more you travel the more you have that experience where you’re getting the same
Thing there’s a bit of a meditative kind of to me a safe comforting feeling to know I know what’s happening wherever I go even though I don’t get it’s like in your installation a lot of differences between your work and ours but generally it’s the same I know what’s I know
What’s coming next you might say it different yeah but but you know what I I remember so we didn’t talk about the fact that my Lodge has the George Washington gav but I I remember going on my first gavel trip to a uh a lodge in Pennsylvania that was just over the
Maryland Pennsylvania borders two hours away and they didn’t have stewards and I was our Junior Steward and I’m like you you don’t have me like what what is this they don’t have the position at all in that jurisdiction no not at all really no stewards like how who who does your
Food like how does this how does this work I guess they are pretty useless in the ritual work aren’t they they’re not used in the state of communication at all right and so you know I mean look it’s just the way it is but you know it was
My first like hold on sort of moment that’s me out of oh God damn yeah no it’s true I mean when I became a fellowcraft I was asked the next day to do a fellowcraft degree at another Lodge I had just seen the degree and when I
Went to do the steward position a lot of it was different the way they move and the way that they sit and you’re like wait a minute I thought I okay wait so and I’m not going to argue with these people I learned that early on you don’t
Argue ritual with some in somebody else’s Lodge you just accept it uh and so i’ I’m sure you’re the same way if I’m going to do ritual in your Lodge the first thing I’m going to do is ask you to show me how you do it so that I can
Do it well to be fair I’m that way because I’ve made the mistake of trying to think that I knew what I was talking about so you know I’ve I’ve gotten those lumps the hard way I I’ve been that Brash really right and oh AB absolutely I talk to anybody who knows
Me Freemasonry has matured me like in amazing ways yeah well you’re an old man now you know hey I’m older than you I know I’m I’m looking down the barrel of a service award man like this is not cool yeah yeah what 30
Years no no I mean I just hit 20 so you know we we start with 25 in DC but like you know when it’s when you’re under a a five Milestone is like it’s it’s coming you know before you know it you’ll be at your 65 year service reward but you know
To your point though the the opposite is also true and it’s fascinating when it happens I I I remember going to visit um a lodge in Ireland that was in Dublin and there were two lodges meeting that night and one of them was doing a degree
And one was just having a stated meeting which one did I pick the degree come to find out they’re like well we’re not even sure we can open we just it’s you know a couple people are out you know whatever and I’m like well look if
There’s anything I can do let me know fine well they they work from a book in in England and so they were like look we can do this if you are willing to sit in this chaplain and I’m like sure whatever um you know by this point i’ been a past
Master for five eight years done degrees all over whatever me where I’m good exactly like just tell me where to stand and for them it was simple the chaplain just sort of stand somewhere says something closes the book and goes back and then it happens twice and that’s it
Okay so I do the first one great fine whatever they go through the whole degree which is completely different but all all the same and we get to the end and I start reading and I’m like I look down and you remember I told you about that guy Jim Laughlin who would Dev
Vouch safe thine Aid Almighty father of and it was that prayer and I get two sentences in and I’m sort of reading ahead to try and know what I’m about to say and I realize this is verbatim right and I Clos the book I you
Know basically put it in my pocket and I finished the prayer nice and afterwards they all look at me like like do you have a photographic memory and I’m like look I wasn’t I wasn’t trying like and in hindsight I probably should have just not like just should have pretended to
Read it yeah you know but I’m like you guys you have no idea how many times I’ve said this prayer like it’s like it won’t leave my head no matter what like like it or not you know and it was so coolas to be in this place right most of
Our prayers come right out of the Old Testament and so it’s like th this one wasn’t it’s completely different talking about The intered Apprentice prayer there that yeah V is is that in is that from from the Old Testament uh no don’t know the verse no no the opening and
Closing a lot of it is but those those prayers like that one you’re talking about is pretty specific to Freemasonry so vouch safe thine a Almighty father of creation vouch safe this thy pres you know our present convention blah blah blah but it was here I was DC I’m in
Ireland and like there’s no daylight between the work yeah that’s awesome it’s the same it was the weirdest experience and I mean again talk about dumb luck to walk up I of course want to see a degree they’re short one person they ask me to
Sit and this is what they give me it’s a lot of Destiny in your stories a lot of Destiny you’re right where you need life is a wonderful thing in my opinion if you open yourself to allowing it to happen to you you got to be a yes man
Just say yes and you’re improvising with which goes right to the travel question right if you get the chance to travel I’m in take it yep you know it’s such a great experience you’ll you’ll meet people that you’ve never thought you would meet well this is how I met
You exactly right traveling in foreign land so I app and your wife no less well let’s I was trying to keep her out of it you know I’m yeah well you know I I’ve seen your girlfriend you did fine for yourself uh I’m I am a blessed
Man what can I say are and um in many ways and we are very appreciative for all of your efforts in the fraternity um I don’t know if I love what you’re doing man I really it’s uh it’s huge to have people like you that are actually taking
The time to to you know get this knowledge out and have these conversations in a public way so thank you my pleasure let people know where can they get Amity at I almost anywhere these days uh the App Store the Play Store um am. cop.com uh there I’m sure there will be a
Download link on the on the level uh page soon yes um yeah it’s uh you know we we work with every regular Grand Lodge that’s out there so there you go come on in the water’s fine and uh if if you’re listening instead of uh somewhere
Where you can click just go to go to your Store and search Amity Mason Amit y y that’s it and you’ll you’ll find it and download it and you probably already have a profile you just got to claim it most likely nice and easy so in Florida that’s
Absolutely true we’ve got a couple other Grand lodges that are coming on like that shortly um and certainly either way though just shoot us an email or or a note uh support cooper.com and we are more than happy to help all right thank you Jeremy Barnes AMD app hopefully
Everybody has it if you don’t go get it and we look forward to having you back on the show and talking more about Freemasonry and life is a Mason until next anytime you want next time we can cover the George Washington gavl yes oh
I I I want want to talk about seeing you in the capol building talking to the the people there about that because it was a pretty eye opening experience but that’s for next time everybody have a great day and we’ll see you next time on the level podcast is Out
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