What would you think of somebody sexually molesting his own daughter that is sick they say you did it I would never touch my daughter what should happen to you if you’re guilty of this you should lock me under the jail under the jail my daughter told me that he did
It I have to believe her because she’s my little girl and I have to protect her are you behind all of this have you programmed this child no you think this is a ploy to keep you from your child I too don’t put my granddaughter back in
The hands of this monster I asked them to take a polygraph test because somebody is lying let’s do it if we’re going to do something here that matters then we got to deal with the truth have a good show everybody here we go if I can help get this family back on
Track are you willing to do that ready three take this is going to be a changing day in your life go Dr pH [Applause] This is a custody battle that has cross state lines with very serious accusations now being leveled against the father now I don’t often get letters from dads but Todd wrote me that he is devastated after being accused of the worst you can imagine he is accused of sexually molesting his own
Daughter now this this is serious in his view as you know any father would feel that way now the question is did it happen or is this a case of Parental alienation is this a case of a mother just trying to keep dad away or is this
A man who in fact did the unthinkable well that’s certainly what grandma thinks take a look once when I was putting Tanaya to bed I saw her touching her vaginal area and I said Tanaya what are you doing and she said my daddy do that to me so I called
Laa I was just shocked I didn’t believe what my mom was telling me I was in denial I didn’t want to believe that he would do something like that cold well we don’t want to once when I was giving Tanaya a bath and she started inserting
Her fingers into her vaginal area and I said Tanaya Tania what are you doing and she said my daddy do that she told me that her daddy hurt her vagina and she said Daddy touched my Gina with his boo boo I asked ton like what is what is a
Boo boo she picked up a a wooden block and she said it looked like this I I’m having a hard time trying to understand why somebody would hurt my Tanaya I’ve never touched my daughter inappropriately I’ve never kissed miss my daughter inappropriately these accusations are totally false when I
Think of of Todd now I just I I hate him like I wish Todd was gone it feels like somebody has stabbed me in my heart my granddaughter is suffering for what why because Todd decided to be selfish Todd is a low down dirty who molested his daughter he’s a
Child molester TI is a pervert I think T to pay for what he did to my granddaughter he needs to spend some time in president he doesn’t need to be allowed to do this to any other child if Todd would spend time with tan my greatest fear would be that he would
Molest her again I have done nothing wrong well Todd says he’s done nothing wrong as you heard the two women involved are giving very specific details of how they say Todd molest Ed his daughter and I’m going to talk about what those examples are in just a minute
Why did you want to be here today I wanted to be here today to prove that I’ve never done anything like this to my daughter I love my daughter that is my world she is everything to me and for them to accuse me of something of this magnitude to be
I just don’t understand it I don’t I don’t understand it she’s not just punishing me she’s punishing my daughter she’s punishing everyone in my family so you’re saying that at no time in your life no time in this child’s life have you ever had inappropriate contact with her I’ve never had an
Appropriate contact with my daughter what would you think of somebody that would do that to a little girl that’s sick that is sick sick they say you did it you’ve seen this show you wrote in to me you know how I feel about these things when somebody comes to me with an
Allegation that a child has been hurt molested abused neglected in any way exploited the system has to assume that is correct and prove it wrong if you’ve done this and I didn’t drill down and figure out everything that I could to bring a light to this I would be cheating your innocent daughter
Let’s talk about what they say that you did everything that they said it’s a lot latia knows what type of father I am she she has been around me with my daughter everyone knows what type of father I am with my daughter well now we we know
What latia thinks because we we’ve seen it on tape did you listen to the tape piece that we played did you listen to what she said yes sir I did okay what did you hear her say I heard her say that she hates me she that I’ve done this to my daughter we
Went through a bad breakup I have a new girlfriend and that’s the only reason why she’s been devious to taking my daughter away from me I would never touch my daughter I would never in my life touch my daughter in that fashion no way no how never have every even thought of
Something of that sick magnitude I would never harm my daughter never I would never I would never touch my daughter like that so they just made this up because you have a new girlfriend is this her yes it is this is Christen yes it is what should happen to you if
You’re guilty of this you should lock me under the jail under the jail I’ve never done anything like this to my daughter anybody who does anything like this should be in jail but if it turns out that you have then you agree you ought to be locked up
I you ought to be taken off the street so you can’t get to other children there’s nothing to agree to cuz I’ve never touched my daughter inappropriately well up next the last time he saw them was in court 5 months ago he has not seen the two women that
Are accusing of molesting his own daughter I let him tell me his side first now we’re going to hear from the Accusers I believe that Diana is the master mind to this whole situation I totally believe that Diana and latia are putting things in my daughter’s head my daughter has never told me about Dad you touched this or dad you did this wrong my daughter wouldn’t say say those things I am the walking
Example of a great father and my daughter knows that I’ve always gone above and beyond fora and Tanaya the entire time that we were together I provided I took care of us I made sure Tanaya had everything I’ve always helped latia in any possible way with Tanaya
Tod hasn’t pay any child support he’s supposed to pay me $490 a month and I have not received anything I have been a perfect dad Todd is never provided and he’s the worst example for a father well today I’m trying to get to the bottom of some very serious allegations Todd’s ex-girlfriend latia
And her mother say that he molested his little girl I take those allegations very serious ious ly even though they have not been proven as yet now Todd says he’s innocent and is proud of his parenting skills but grandma says Todd is a danger to his
Daughter my mom and Todd they don’t get along at all my mom thinks Todd is a poor excuse for a man Diana never liked me for some odd reason maybe she felt that I didn’t treat her daughter the way that she needed to be treated I’ve witnessed
His verbal abuse I didn’t like it I didn’t like Todd being controlling of my daughter I believe that Diana is The Mastermind to this whole situation I totally believe that Diana and latia are putting things in my daughter’s head my daughter has never told me about Dad you
Touched this or dad you did this wrong my daughter wouldn’t say those things if tydd thinks I’m making this up is this is is my daughter you have no power of authority over anything with my daughter I make the decisions with my daughter Diana is nobody to Me well I’m here with Todd latia and Lea’s mother Diana now okay you’ve been watching the show from from backstage right yes so you know I take this very seriously of course and I intend before this is over with I intend to get to the bottom of this of course
Because somebody is lying of course in my view somebody somebody here’s lying we’re we’re going to do what we can to find out now let me ask you something do you really believe this man has done what what you’re accusing him doing I say that he did it because my daughter
Told me that he did it I can’t not believe what she told me I feel that I would be a horrible mother if I did not automatically protect her her after she told me what she has told you do have to take it seriously there’s no question but you heard what I said
About that we have to assume these children are telling the truth but are are you saying that because that’s what your mother told you or are you saying that because that’s what you believe because your mother has criticized you for not being a good parent because you
Didn’t believe that he had done this because you didn’t take early steps to protect your daughter MH so are you doing all this to please her and Escape her criticism or are you doing it because you really believe he’s molested your child I’m doing it because my
Daughter told me that he did it do you believe that I I believe it because my daughter told me yes I believe it you don’t sound like you believe it I believe it I’m telling you you don’t sound like you believe it you sound like yeah she said it and yeah my mother’s
All over me about it but I got a feeling that you can’t look at him and tell him I believe you are capable of sexually molesting our child well Dr Phil I would never want to believe that the father of my child would do any would harm her
Anyway because he’s never ever I’m going to lie to you he’s never ever given me a reason to think that he would harm her never never but when you have your child come to you and tell you that this happened to them I don’t know what else
I’m supposed to do I feel I’m supposed to believe my daughter like I don’t I don’t know I don’t know what else I’m supposed to do I have to believe her I don’t know I mean I don’t know I if if it didn’t happen I pray that it didn’t
Happen but I don’t understand why my daughter would say it did but I have to believe her because she’s my little girl and I have to protect her I’m I I have to protect her are you behind all this have you program this child no are you you don’t
Like him you don’t want want him around you don’t want him around your grandchild you don’t want him around your daughter you want him out and gone he left her for another woman is that what this is all about no no is it about
Okay I’ll get you you son of a [ __ ] you want to do that I’ll show you how to play this game no is that what we’re talking about here no it’s not no it’s not she made a lot of other allegations against you as well you know she said
That you have pulled a gun on her did you pull a gun on her I never pulled a gun on you you never p a gun on I never pulled a are you serious you didn’t even come over there I did come over there don’t tell me that I’m
Lying lie about so i p a g right in your face a g on me you know you know what’s interesting to me is that you have a very different energy and conviction about that than you do about the fact that he is after your daughter Dr Phil I
Don’t want because Kaya told me that I’ve never saw C harm ton in any kind of way I’ve never seen him harm her in any kind of way but my daughter told me this she supposedly told you first then you told your daughter T’s words to me were
Mom Mom no no T I don’t think that I don’t think so I don’t think so and and you criticized her for that and and I I’ve said that you you said that to us she also says that you raped her I raped you yes why would you try to get back
With me if I if I raped you I tried to get you to leave and you wouldn’t leave are you serious you been calling my Momom trying to us back together I don’t understand why I’m here I don’t understand why I’m here we here because of my daughter not because I
Hurt you it don’t matter what we went through it don’t matter what we went through because the allation that you give everybody take everybody take a deep breath we’re going to take a break latia says she has proof that Todd is guilty of molesting his daughter what is
It we’re going to see it after the break After a visit with Todd T’s Behavior was out of control when I would ask her where she learned those things she would say from my daddy and his new girlfriend Kristen I definitely believe this is the case of ex-girlfriend cbad I believe that she’s still upset that we’re not together I feel that laa is doing all this because she started to see that I was happy with someone else don’t flatter yourself I’m not upset that Todd
Broke up with me I’m actually relieved I’m able to be the best mom that I can be to my daughter and that’s what means the most to me well as you’ve seen there is a lot of Unfinished emotional business between this couple not just about whether or
Not Todd has molested his daughter tanah but whether or not there was was violence here whether there were threats here uh Todd says this is over he says those things didn’t happen he has moved past his relationship with latia but the two are still fighting over custody of
Their four-year-old daughter and she has accused him of molesting this precious child he says look I have done no wrong but letia says judging by their daughter’s Behavior it’s obvious that he’s lying and she even thinks Todd’s new girlfriend is a part of the problem after a visit with Todd Tan’s
Behavior was out of control she would have her Barbie dolls like on top of each other moaning and kissing and when I would ask her where she learned those things she would say from my daddy and his new girlfriend Kristen what I think happened is that Tanaya had to have been
In the bed with Todd and his girlfriend while they were having sex I also think that Tod moved on to acting out doing those things to my daughter my daughter’s never seen me and be intimate I’ve kissed Christen once and my daughters told me daddy that’s
Nasty and I said okay baby I won’t do that again I tried to talk to him about it and ask him where did she get it from and immediately like he went off on me and just started telling me I was brainwashing my daughter the te is lying
It may be a parent’s fault for a child seeing certain things on TV that showing those things but kids pick up things from everywhere kids are sponges so it’s no telling where she picked it up for I feel like my daughter was robbed of her innocence that makes me feel horrible like she’s
Such a precious sweet little girl like why why why would you do that to her well I’m adding Kristen to our conversation here she is Todd’s uh new girlfriend and you you’ve seen tonight you notice that we don’t show her face because I just I don’t do that with
Children in situations like this but trust me she is a beautiful and and precious child and no child deserves that certainly not this child there’s a lot of bad things being set up here about your boyfriend what do you think about all that I think that as far as their relationship goes
With each other um it has nothing to do with what we’re here for today which is about Tanaya and the allegations that they are saying that he molested his daughter um it seems like it comes up a lot about latia and Todd and things that latia has said to me it always starts
Out with with and ends with her and Todd when it should be about tan have you two been inappropriate in front of this child absolutely not have you two had any kind of intimate interactions in front of this child have you had sex in front of the child never never have you
Come close to it have you done anything in front of this child that would cause the child to mimic this Behavior absolutely not nothing nothing you know to me if something’s happened to this child then I I want to take whatever measures I I
Can to to cause that to be stopped if it hasn’t happened to the child and somebody’s saying it is I want to take whatever measures I can to see that that stopped now I’ve been doing this 35 years and I I I have to say you become a
Suspect in this because you’re the one to whom the child reportedly said this to begin with right you’re the first you’re you’re the first stop right mhm so that means no I wouldn’t care who you were you you have to be someone that is looked at and I got to tell you what
You’re reporting here is very suspicious to me why it’s very suspicious to me because after doing this for 35 years after having done these interviews with children that are are suspected of having been molested knowing what their word power is their vocabulary is and what their
Concept formation is is I find it really hard to believe that a child that age could and would articulate all of these different and complex allegations to you or to anyone else having interviewed child after child after child I have worked as a I have worked
As an officer of the court I have been involved in in these interviews you know I I’ve got a a bachelor’s degree a master’s degree a PhD in Psychology I then did a year years postdoctoral training in forensic psychology and This falls under forensics I’ve then worked
As an officer of the Court I’ve interviewed these children and I never one time in 35 years have I ever heard a child articulate what you say this child said to you now I don’t know whether I I don’t know I’m not saying you’re lying okay and I’m not saying you’re not okay
What I’m saying is you have a suspect report here and any professional worth their assault would say this is suspect you also have what appears to me to be a high level of motivation because he has hurt her all right not that he has hurt your granddaughter but that he has hurt her
So here’s the big question were these allegations made up so latia could gain custody of her daughter now that that’s what Todd thinks and and if so it it’s something that’s been referred to in a lot of States as parental alienation and and is a is a dastardly
Thing to do I mean it’s a terrible terrible thing to do if that’s what’s happened is there a master Puppeteer here is it her is it Diana or is she simply a gatekeeper that got this information and passed it along we’re going to talk about all of that and try
To get to some answers after the Break Lea has done all of this just to gain full custody of my daughter I would never put these things in my daughter’s head I mean she’s four the only way she can hurt me is to take my daughter away from [Applause] me well AA and Diana believe that Todd molested his daughter now I I say that because that’s what they say I said straight up I don’t really think laa believes that I think she says I have to treat it as legitimate until I know otherwise but Todd says latia is just
Using these allegations as a way to gain custody of their little girl take a look I believe letia knows that I didn’t touch my daughter letia has done all of this just to gain full custody of my daughter what kind of parent would make these things up what kind of parent
Would say to their child oh say daddy did this to you or say daddy did that that’s just ridiculous laa is doing this out of spite to take me away from my daughter I would never put these things in my daughter’s head I mean she’s four
He keeps saying I didn’t do it I took a a lie detector test but why is she saying this the only way she can hurt me is to take my daughter away from me and she has she’s done exactly what she shot out to do okay so there’s no question in your
Mind a you say you know you didn’t do this I know I didn’t you believe him I totally I assume you do absolutely and you think this is a ploy to keep you from your child I do and um you’ve had problems seeing your child has there been an emergency
Custody order at this point that gives you control of this child sole custody of this child give me so custody he has um been awarded supervised visits supervised visits because again the court system like me is saying this is a false positive we have to protect the child until we know
Until we figure out what’s going on so an emergency basis you get so custody and you can’t see the child without somebody there watching you every second how do you feel about having to be watched with your own daughter to have to have somebody stand there and tell me
I can’t hug or kiss my daughter the way I always have it’s not right well is it right Brett Burman is here today he is an attorney that specializes in family law you’ve seen him on the show before because we bring the best of the best and I have such confidence and respect
For this man he says that Todd is going to have a really hard time proving to the court that he should have custody of his daughter Brett it’s tough to unring a bell and it seems like the court system is flowing in the direction of excluding him from his daughter’s life what what
What happens now why you say it’s hard I think it’s going to be difficult I think the first problem was when the when your home court transferred jurisdiction to a court that’s 2,000 Mi away You’re appearing by on the telephone on a speaker box in front of a judge it’s
Hard to get your point across that way plus it’s now been about a year or so since you’ve seen your daughter courts want you to see your daughter more and more for you to get more time with her he’s fighting a logistics battle he’s not there they can’t look
Him in the eye they can’t ask him follow-up questions and look at his non-verbal Behavior the finders of fact don’t have all the information they want and so it’s easier to just air in in the direction of protecting the child absolutely and and the and the fact that
Todd is not able to come out and visit frequently continuously is only going to work against Todd and as he’s trying to gain more time with his daughter does he have to pick up and move there I mean if he really wants to have a fighting chance to overcome these allegations and
Restore some type of normal flow does he need to be where he can attend these hearings does he need to be where he can have a regular visitation history with his daughter that may be your only option at this point unless latia is willing to facilitate and pay for half
Of the trips there and uh make your daughter available that may be your only option going forward well here’s the thing the judge has said that she has to pay half of the ticket she didn’t pay half of the ticket say why didn’t you pay half of the ticket she said he’s
Supposed to say child support he’s saying they’ve ordered a child support that I can’t pay I don’t have the money to pay it so she says I’m not going to pay for half his ticket when he isn’t paying anything for the child so now we’re in a money battle as well you know
There are two people here that I am very interested in knowing how they come out on this and that would be Todd and Diana because you were the receiver of of this first information so I asked them both to take a polygraph test now I have not seen the
Results but the examiner told me somebody is lying and we’re going to find out who when we come [Applause] Back I’m about to take take the polygraph test I have nothing to lie about I’m ready to take another polygraph test to prove my innoc my best advice is that if you did something you shouldn’t have done then don’t take this test this is a parents worst nightmare
This extremely hard for me to believe that Todd molested my daughter I would never think that Todd would do anything like that to Tanaya he always seemed to me like to love her and would never hurt her the grandparents worst nightmare is to know that every time I put Tanaya in
Todd’s hands he was doing something to my granddaughter not day it’s going by that we have not been living in hell because every day we think about when is he going to pay for what he’s done to Na well we’re back back and I have envelopes here that contain the results to both Todd’s and Diana’s polygraph test uh now this test these two polygraph tests were administered uh by Jack trarco if you watch this show you you’ve seen Mr tarco before he is an ex
FBI agent and as I say we we find the best of the best and there’s no reason not to either of you have any question as to the professionalism or or conduct of Mr trarco no I do you have any question about the validity of of the
Test that no sir that that he has given here not at all no no are you okay for me to reveal the the results right now yeah here on the show both of you yeah you’re okay with this all right Todd we’re going to look at yours
First um Mr tomarco asked you question number one have you ever touched tanaya’s vaginal area for a sexual reason your answer was no and the result was not deceptive the result was that that is not deceptive that you are telling the truth when he said that are you relieved to hear that how
How do you feel about that I feel I I there aren’t any words that anyone could use to even Define how um happy I am about that but it still does not answer to me why she said it happened well let’s talk about that the first question that was asked
You did Tanaya tell you that Todd touched her Gina and your answer was yes MH correct yes and the answer according to dra trarco is that that response is deceptive so that means that when you said yes she told you that you were not being truthful according to
The results of this test and that what you are saying is a lie it’s not it’s not a lie Dr Phil I can swear to that and it’s not a lie so I don’t know what I don’t know what to say the second question which is a control question says within the past
Year did Tanaya tell you that Todd touched her Gina So within the past year you said yes the result of that was deceptive that that was a lie it’s not a lie it’s not a lie what do you say about this I don’t
Know what to say cuz I I when come in TV I’ve got too much to lose this is my daugh this is my granddaughter use my daughter to get to me this is my granddaughter this is Dr Phil this is my granddaughter imagine your daughter was taken away from you for
340 some days don’t listen to me don’t you dare my granddaughter came me Dr Phil I don’t have any reason to lie in other words me and my daughter both are lying I have not scripted this I don’t care I have not scripted anything I have no reason to lie no reason
Whatsoever no no reason whatsoever my granddaughter has told me this and I hope you don’t put him back in a hands of this monster my daughter away from you I my daughter away from you grand daughter I my daughter away from you this monster I will be fighting
For the course you be away from my daughter I care because I honestly believe my granddaughter you are poisoning my daughter i h I want you to take a look at this just this little piece right here and I want to ask you something my daughter is suffering my
Granddaughter is suffering for what why because somebody because TD decided to be selfish because T decided to be selfish I hear the words in a painful and and and horrible report but I don’t see any tears Dr Phil I hear your voice crying but I don’t see any
Tears why would that be Dr Phil look I have been aching with pain for the last year and a have understand me imagine going through it’s not longer than long because me and my family have been going through hell if not longer than that because this whoever I don’t
Even no this moner that’s what it is it’s your hate for me your hate for me no I don’t have hate for you I don’t have my mother has t we just proved we don’t have I don’t have I don’t have hate Dr you would not be aare of my
Daughter I don’t have hate you would not be my daugh I swear I swear to God I swear to God I don’t have hate Jack do you believe that he’s been inappropriate with his child absolutely not you don’t think it’s you don’t think so um I do have a question
Because I don’t believe that my mother would tell my daughter to say any of the things that she has said mhm that makes me go to okay they say he didn’t do it he passed the polygraph all right he didn’t do it but why is she saying that he did it I want
To know why it does what where do I go now because I don’t know what happened I don’t know this is where it came from no I don’t believe T told her to say I don’t believe t did not come from me it did not come
From me do you believe now that in fact that he has been falsely accused do that all signs point to that I do okay um because that’s a you that’s a place to begin I mean and I I got to tell you guilty people don’t tend to seek me
Out they don’t they just don’t because they know I’m going to ask the next question and the next question and next question we’re going to take a break for just one second and I’m going to ask the two of you to leave I’m going to ask you
To go backstage I’m going to ask you to go back the audience are backstage wherever I want to talk to just these two for just a couple of minutes we’ll be right [Applause] [Applause] Back Latia you asked a question a minute ago you said I don’t believe this of my mother no um and I’m going to tell you I I believe you may be wrong there um let me finish um I think your mother may be very well intended but she may be highly
Misguided I don’t know I just met her today I don’t think your mother is an evil person I think that she really has a problem with him because he has hurt you and I think she has lost all objectivity here it’s very important that the two of you try to
Find a way to both be in your daughter’s life and I don’t know if it means you need to move or what but if you accept what you’re instincts have told you what the evidence suggest then you don’t have cause to fear that he’s molesting your
Daughter and you too don’t have to come back together but you need to find a way to both of you be in this child’s life and and I hope that you will I hope that you will Todd what did you want to say I just want to say thank you
What did you want to say I I I just I apologize for accusing you but I just want you to feel where I was coming from and if I if she were to come to you and tell you that I did that I would just only hope that you would protect
Her the same way that I felt I had to and you do understand that would it be all right for Todd to see Tania backstage would would you ask him to do that is your she’s in your custody you have to ask him to do it would would you
Do that do you want to see tonight I would love to see my baby we’ll be right [Applause] Back when a child makes a complaint you have to treat it as legitimate until you prove that it’s not I think these two now have some understanding that you can build on I’m glad you wrote in and this was a tough journey and we’ve come a long way in an hour
And uh it just goes to show you when people lean forward and and really try you can cover some ground Please Be Our Guest and allow us to uh buy your next plane ticket to see your little girl a special thanks to polygraph expert Jack trarco and family law expert
Brett Burman you guys are the tops thank you so much [Applause] so [Applause] Much what Happ Happ I missed you Baby D today on Dr Phil teenage Ben’s drinking you say I don’t see the point in drinking if I’m not getting drunk correct you get blackout drunk four days a week it’s not completely blackout drunk they say they don’t have a problem I can still stop at
Any time you can’t stop but are they partying to death he’s wrecked two cars and he’s been to the hospital 17 times for alcohol poisoning take a look that’s your son’s future let’s do it if we’re going to do something here that matters then we got to deal with the
Truth have a good show everybody here we go if I can help get this family back on track are you willing to do that ready fre take this is going to be a changing day in your [Applause] life all right thank you very much fraternities sororities parties
This is an all too familiar scene all over college campuses it looks fun doesn’t it but all this partying can come at a very high price as more and more underage college kids are making headlines for drink ing themselves to death now parents hear me maybe you
Don’t watch every Dr Phil show but I’m going to tell you this is one that you want to watch if you have a child in middle school or high school watching Today’s Show could save their lives or someone else’s this is one of those shows you need to record because what
We’re talking about is not something that just happens to someone else’s child it could happen to yours last year Alone one 1,825 college students between the ages of 18 and 24 died from alcohol related injuries take a look death of a student alcohol was found in his system has been found
Dead while spring bre officials are investigating the death of a student on the University of Pennsylvania campus that student tumbled 30 ft inside a campus fraternity house police say alcohol was being consumed at the party the Boston College student has been found dead Grant disappeared after a
House party on Saturday night uapd says they received a medical assistance call at the F Gamma Delta fraternity they found an unresponsive male dead at the scene Victoria Chun was found dead in the snow near her Ithaca College apartment in February just a day earlier police found 19-year-old George Dunes
Unconscious in the library of a Cornell University fraternity police say alcohol appears to be a factor in both deaths a fraternity member at Georgia Southern University Philip Christian dies while on spring break a mixture of Oxycodone cocaine and alcohol was found in his system that last news story was about
Phillip whose family is here with us today they say Phillip was enjoying his last spring break before graduation by partying with some of his fraternity Brothers in Florida but what started out as a night of drinking and fun turned to tragedy the day that we received a call
That my son had Di died it was the absolute worst day of my life my son Philip was on spring break Philip went with his fraternity Brothers he was to graduate in December he went down there on a Saturday the following day Sunday morning we received a phone call that he had
Obed Philip died from alcohol cocaine and oxycotton Philip thought he was invincible Philip worked hard and played harder I don’t think philli was aware that what he was doing could have killed him Paul and I thought we had taught him better when I saw Phil’s body for the
First time was reality you can’t deny that’s his body laying on that bed cold it’s inconceivable to me that 15 his fraternity brothers would let him lay down and die Philip was a grown man he’s responsible for his own actions but I’ll never forgive him for not paying
Attention and allowing him to die thought it was not here for the holidays and that’s obviously weight heavy on everybody’s mind we’ll do the the best we can and hopefully remember him in stories and jokes it was a 100% preventable death and that was completely unnecessary when you lose a
Child it’s the absolute hardest thing in the world a horrific tragedy with a fine young man that could have been prevented we’re going to talk to two families today where we’re trying to prevent what happened in your family and I know this has been terrible I’m going to ask you
To to help me help some of these families today um I’m going to deal with two College dropouts who partied themselves senseless there’s no other way to say it Victoria brags that she can down 10 to 15 shots of hard liquor in just two hours now her mom Shannon says that’s a
Slow night for her daughter take a look at 18 Victoria enrolled at University of Colorado and start a party in a lot there I started drinking pretty heavily I was missing a lot of glasses I have a really high tolerance for liquor I can take 15 to 20 shots and still be
Okay I can do a quarter of what she does and still be alive you have a drinking problem right no I don’t my drink of choice would be vodka just because it’s the cheapest I drink about 750 mL of vodka a night I would have memory
Blackouts 5 to six times a week recently I woke up in my bathroom I don’t remember any part of it cor I’ve gotten a million calls saying I want to stop drinking I’m an alcoholic I need I need help one night when I was black out
Drunk I ended up falling down I got back up to hear a girl call me a stupid [ __ ] I knocked her in the face three squad cars ended up pulling up and I got in minor in possession of alcohol I found out Victoria was pregnant two days ago I
Was very shocked when I found out I was pregnant you told us that you took a test and you found out you were pregnant and you were I said really drunk the night that I thought I was pregnant I went out and I had a couple beers and I
Had a couple shots of tequila I don’t know what to do for her because I know she’s addicted down I am not an addict okay tell me why y’all wanted to be here I assume you want to be here you agreed to be here right cuz you don’t
Want to be here cuz you don’t have a problem right right uh your mother has the problem right and what is her problem she thinks I’m an alcoholic okay she thinks you’re an alcoholic and so she’s meddling in your life nagging mostly nagging not treating you like the adult you are exactly okay
And are you just overreacting to this not overreacting at all why not because she’s an alcoholic why do you say you don’t have a problem I don’t wake up needing to drink I can go a few days without drinking I don’t have a problem going to sleep I don’t have nightmares
Like some of my friends do from not drinking so it’s not been an issue so you’re self- diagnosing that you’re okay right and what are the criteria for being an alcoholic well as some of my friends would say they wake up with night tears they can’t sleep they shake
They have to have it things like that so your knowledge about whether you’re an alcoholic or not is based on what they say I guess so the proverbial they so they say that they have night tears they say they have body trimmers they say they have things that I don’t have and
They are alcoholics so by contrast I know that I’m not I don’t think I have a problem and you say I don’t see the point in drinking if I’m not getting drunk correct okay you say you drink about 750 milliliters of vodka a day if if I was drinking that night then yes
You can do 10 to 20 shots in 2 hours you get off work around 11: or 12 at night and you buy a bottle of vodka and you go home and drink you get blackout drunk four days a week not blackout drunk it would be a Miss spots of the night or I
Can’t remember certain things I say it’s not completely blackout drunk so you’re just sort of blacking out drunk some nights Total Blackout some nights it’s just hit and miss I guess so your brain turns on and then turns off and turns on and then turns off so having gone over
That history you you drink 300 nights a year or let’s let’s give you some extra say turn 75 nights a year okay 34s of that time it’s blackout in whole or part and you drink little less than a quart every night that you’re that you’re drinking and you think you don’t have a
Problem no I can stop whenever I want yeah so you don’t want to I’m not saying I don’t want to I haven’t drank for four night but you haven’t wanted to not in the past no all this time okay and and now you say you haven’t been drinking
For four nights because you found out you were pregnant correct okay coming up what are the legal ramifications Victoria might face if she does not stop partying while she’s pregnant well we’ll talk about that when we come [Applause] back Victoria is awful with authority her drinking caused her to lose quite a few jobs my mom 100% thinks I’m an alcohol but I know I am not one what I need to know is how are you going to quit drinking on your own
Because I have a child it’s not like I’m addicted to it mother my biggest fear is that Victoria isn’t going to be able to stop drinking and that even though she’s pregnant she’s still going to drink and damage the baby well Victoria is a self-described hard partying College
Dropout who just found out that she’s pregnant now she celebrated the news with about six shots of vodka two tequila shots and two beers that was the night you found out no tell me about that that was when I thought I might be but my mother always told me I could
Never get pregnant so I never thought I could okay you thought you might be pregnant possibly possibly MH you weren’t sure but you might be pregnant so you went out and had six shots of vodka two of tequila and a couple of beers do you see any flaw in that logic
I mean I probably shouldn’t Dr drink knowing that I possibly could be pregnant no why not it’s not good for the baby well why what would happen to the baby come out deformed something like that we got 250 people here in the audience that none of whom you’ve ever
Met before don’t know you don’t have any act to grind with you don’t they’re not like your mother’s friends that we flew in based on the history that I’ve described and what she’s agreed to if you think this girl has a drinking problem stand up so they they seem to
Disagree they think your mother may be right except this kid right here and your name is Nick yep okay we’re going to meet Nick later this one of your validators here we’re going to meet Nick later in the show now y’all can sit down one of the people stand up is this
Gentleman right here tell us who you are I’m Dr Reef kareim okay now Dr Reef you are part of they and do you have any particular expertise that would cause you to have some credibility in this issue I’m a board-certified addiction medicine specialist and a board certified
Psychiatrist and I deal with people that have alcoholism every day okay so you’re a psychiatrist your board certified addiction specialist this is your profession this is what what you do why would you think that she has a problem with alcoholism and and this young man over here in the sweater is perhaps
Misinformed first off you meet all the criteria you’ve developed an incredible amount of tolerance for someone your age and and your disposition secondly there’s an inability to cut down up until recently and then when you were pregnant when you were found pregnant even the thought that you were pregnant
LED you to keep drinking and in this case you’re drinking for two and when you drink for two you’re looking at all sorts of neurodevelopmental problems for your baby especially if you drink in the first trimester and that’s right now so if you’re drinking at all even the drink
That Dr Phil mentioned the the drinking episode The binge drinking that you had right away that’s problems for your baby all of that leads to the diagnosis of alcohol dependence for you have you had a drink since that night have you been four days without a drink yep are you
Telling me the truth I am 100% honest about that yeah you you’re telling me the truth I’ve been with her mhm and I definitely have not touched it not since I found out 100% for sure I wouldn’t do that this baby could be born with alcohol toxicity absolutely there’s
Three ways you can harm or kill your baby you can flat out abort your baby right or you can keep drinking and eventually there could be a spontaneous abortion caused by you and then the third thing is you can have the baby and it can have fetal alcohol syndrome where
It could be mentally [ __ ] because of you and because of selfish drinking you can also have organ damage in that baby the heart you can have brain problems well that’s not the only problem Victoria could face if she does not stop Downing hard liquor while she’s pregnant
Family law attorney ARA Martin says she could also be criminally prosecuted for everything from attempted murder to some sort of manslaughter uh ariva what happens if because she says no she’s not going to drink here and by the way I don’t believe that I think you have a
Smug arrogant attitude and that causes me to believe that you are a know-it-all and you think you can go do what you want to do make your own rules and just quit drinking when I know you can’t it is irresponsible to do what you did and shame on you for doing
It you don’t do that you don’t do that and I tell you what a prosecutor would tear your ass up ariva what would happen here you you know Dr Phil we’re talking about both criminal and civil penalties for this kind of conduct and legally you could be facing criminal prosecution if you harm
That baby you could Le lose your rights terminate your parental rights to that child listen to what we’re saying don’t end up in jail don’t ruin your whole life when you have an opportunity to raise a beautiful baby it’s serious stuff so what do you so what do you
Think about what’s being said here I understand exactly what’s being said I know that what I did was wrong I don’t want to continue doing that and I don’t plan to I do want to change I don’t want to drink that’s the last thing I want to do
While I’m pregnant you said you want to change but yet you started this all out by saying I don’t have a problem well I just got reamed don’t you think yeah yeah me too so has that changed your opinion well I do have a professional sitting right in front of
Me saying I am one can I really argue with that you can and your brain will will try to make you do that because you know what I wish you would say I’ll tell you what I wish you would say I wish you would say wow you
Know what this is a harsh and uncomfortable wakeup call but it sure puts things into Focus for me but if I’m a high-risk candidate I am willing to subject myself to whatever help monitoring scrutiny or whatever to ensure that I protect myself and my baby
That’s all I want to do is protect my baby well to do that you have to treat yourself better to do that you have to stop drinking yourself into Oblivion four nights a week and that is terribly unhealthy and if we take away the alcohol that I think you’re medicating
Yourself with and we don’t put something back in its place your anxiety and depression and upset is is going to come bubbling back up cuz I think you’re anesthetizing yourself with alcohol every time you think you do it to party I think you do it to numb the pain I
Don’t want to punish you I want to help you if we’re going to take the alcohol away and you must take the alcohol away then you’ve got to come to grips with whatever it is that’s causing you to rely on it so heavily and I am
Prepared to offer you that help I will get you help in your community as our gift to you to put in place of the alcohol that you must eliminate from your life will you take that help yeah I’ll take that help because we we will make that help available to you
Okay I want Victoria to keep listening because coming up he got kicked out of the dorms for drinking now this 20-year-old has been hospitalized 11 times this year for alcohol poisoning we saw him sitting down earlier it’s Nick he’s one of the want said oh no she’s
Not an alcoholic she says she can quit she can quit he says he do have a problem either we’ll talk to him when we come [Applause] back on average I’ll drink a half a liter to a liter of hard alcohol 5 to 7 days a week I don’t like the taste I wouldn’t drink it if it didn’t get me drunk he’s gone into the hospital for blood poisoning 11 times [Applause] well Kathy says her son Nick started partying heavily during his freshman year of college now Nick admits that he drinks every day and he goes on binges with vodka rum and whiskey take a Look my 20-year-old son Nick started drinking heavily his freshman year in college he’s gone into the hospital for blood poisoning last year it was about six times and this year it was about 11 times on average I’ll drink a half a liter to a liter of hard alcohol 5 to 7 days a
Week some of the crazy things I’ve done when I’m really drunk is feed my pants I blacked out several times spitting on the floor throwing a ping in a sink on one occasion I pulled down my pants and took a poop on the bedro floor my
Drink of choice right now is rum cuz it’s on sale I don’t like the taste I wouldn’t drink it if it didn’t get me drunk when Nick is away at school he’ll call me up saying he doesn’t have any money for food so I put money in his
Account my mom has talked to me about my alcohol use but the truth of the matter is she will buy me alcohol in October of 2011 Nick went to the hospital again for blood alcohol poisoning he blew a05 I have been hospitalized they say my drinking is leading to
Pancreatitis causes me to vomit constantly they say that if I keep up drinking like this that things are just going to keep going downhill in 2011 Nick has been to detox three times I do believe I have a handle on my drinking he needs to stop drinking I just can’t do it
Anymore so you have a handle on your drinking yeah if I choose to not drink I won’t drink it’s not like if I don’t have money I won’t drink I mean if there’s nothing to do I won’t drink so I feel like if I want to stop at any time
I can as long as I stay busy I don’t need a drink do I look like I’m buying this no not really seriously come on and you know part of the part of the thing here is I understand that your brain isn’t working right because it is toxic
With alcohol I get that and so it’s it’s it’s really kind of unfair to try to reason with you because you don’t know what you don’t know cuz what I want to do is grab you and Shake you till your damn teeth Rattle and and then
I want to start trying to reason with you but you really don’t get it do do you you’ve been to the hospital 11 times see I don’t think that’s true I think it’s more like probably like four times five times this year how old are you 20
What state do you live in Minnesota and what’s the drinking age there 21 so you’re not even old enough to drink and you’ve been to the hospital according to you five times for alcohol poisoning and you say you don’t have a problem even through the haze of your alcohol
Altered brain that can’t look like it adds up does that add up to you that this is not Insanity it’s still the point is I can still stop at any time you you can’t stop you can’t do squat what you can do is sit around and
Drink and your pants that’s what you can do that’s what you do right I mean if the opportunity is there yeah but if the opportunity isn’t given to me then then I can’t like okay I totally agree if I parachuted you into the Antarctic where there was no alcohol you would be
Cured I totally agree if the opportunity didn’t present itself but it does present itself does it not so I want to introduce Dr Jorge Rodriguez he’s a gastroenterologist he’s an internist and he says the chances are that Nick already has some sort of brain and liver damage from all of your binge drinking
Dr Rodriguez come on will you thanks come over here with me um show us what we have here do first of all look at the two brains one is much smaller than the other guess which one is the alcoholic’s brain not the normal siiz one the little one so CAT
Scans are done of people that are alcoholics as they get older all the time their brain is smaller all well show us what we’re looking at here so here here’s a brain all right that’s been cut in half but look at this brain this one as opposed to this one M
Already has a hole in it so this brain is smaller it has holes in it abolutely and it is basically like a muscle atrophying this brain is shrinking up absolutely which why I said it’s kind of unfair for me to try to debate with you because your brain is shrinking up and
It isn’t even through and it isn’t even through growing yet seriously your brain grows until you’re 25 and when you do this to your brain during the developmental stages then it doesn’t get the growth that it needs okay go ahead let’s take a look at the liver here next
The liver all right the Li gets irritated alcohol sedates and irritates it sedates your brain it irritates your liver every single time all right a normal liver if you look at it looks kind of pinkish all right kind of gross huh I can tell you’re almost about to
Pass out good all right this one is a serotic liver if you were to feel it this one’s much softer this one feels like scar tissue so this is an alcoholic liver correct and that is very likely what binge drinking is is doing to his
AB yeah no doubt about it what do you think about this any comment I don’t know it’s pretty straightforward I guess I mean it’s killing me but I still I still feel like I have a hold on it I don’t know yeah yeah I know cuz that’s your
Brain you’re impaired I don’t know what your excuse is I don’t get why you have been so passive in all of this Nick says his mom Kathy actually buys him beer when she’s in a good mood buys him the poison that is killing him well I’m going to see how good a
Mood she is when I have a few questions for her when we come Back typical day for me I normally start drinking within a few hours of waking up I’ll take a shot about every 15 minutes let’s Nick out of control on Alcohol we’re talking about Ben’s drinking and we’re talking with Kathy who’s the mother of Nick now Nick’s not drinking age yet but he’s been to the hospital 11 times in one year seven times the year before for alcohol poisoning now one of the things of Reva Martin Our Guest here today legal expert
Uh says is that there can be both criminal and civil liability of course for the Drinker who goes out and kills someone but there can also be both civil and in some states criminal liability for a parent of a minor who allows and enables this to occur true absolutely Dr
Phil there’s a concept in the law called vicarious liability and basically it means you’re responsible for the acts of another and particular particularly a minor we heard Nick say that you buy him alcohol so you’re enabling you’re creating the situation you’re helping a situation that could cause him to do
Bodily harm to someone else so we’re just going to do a role play here okay we’re going to assume that your son has in fact gone out and killed someone MH okay we’re just going to we’re going to role play that okay okay okay pardon me
I have to step back when he says that I buy him alcohol I give him money and there might we’re going to give you to answer all those questions and some more okay you’re going to get to say anything you want to say all right you’re going
To get to defend yourself and in fact you’re going to need to all right okay yeah now as an officer of the Court why don’t you swear her in for this role play here ra your right hand and you swear to tell the truth the whole truth
And nothing but the truth yes I do okay you’re ready okay now you’re the mother of Nick correct that is correct and your son began drinking at age 14 is that right that is correct and you knew that correct I didn’t know at that age mhm
What time what age did you find out I knew at about 16 when he started drinking at 16 you knew he was breaking the law correct correct and what did you do well I tried to ground him were you aware that your son was a falling down completely disabled alcoholic uh
Not until the last couple years okay but you’re aware of it now right I sure am you know it now yes I do but yet he continues to drink right that is correct okay now in fact when I say that he is an alcoholic he so much that he urinates
On himself regularly right he loses control of his body he’s so incapacitated right yes you knew that at one point he blew a blood alcohol level of 5.05 is that correct correct and he’s been to the hospital 17 or 18 times for alcohol poisoning is that correct that’s
Correct you knew how impaired he was true that that is correct you knew how regularly he drank correct you knew that he lost control of his body and his faculties correct but yet you continued to allow him to do what he was doing as a minor in violation of the law and go
Out into the world and put others at risk that is not correct did you ever do anything to stop him what did you do tell us what you did I’ve called the police three times this year I’ve tried to get records from the police I’ve tried to do everything I can with the
Every time it goes into the hospital ask them if they’ll please commit him have you taken control of this minor who is your responsibility I can’t control him okay when he stole beer from someone’s garage did you punish him he was not living with me at this at that time did
You punish him you knew he did it did you punish him what did he do when he came home I grounded him when you when he stole your car and wrecked it you didn’t punish him did you I grounded him he stole your car that’s a felony and
You grounded him how long did you ground him be honest a week felony auto theft and you grounded him for a week and he wrecked your car correct yes and then he wrecked his car correct he wrecked his car then he stole your car and wrecked
It so he’s wrecked two cars under the influence correct correct and did you punish him yes yeah you grounded him for a week what did you do anything when he stole your wedding ring and sold it so he could get money for alcohol he’s had five tickets for minor in possession
Correct yes who paid them I did he gets the tickets and you pay the price yes you say you can’t kick him out because you don’t want to see him on the street that’s right do you want to see him in jail no I want to see him get help and that’s
Why I’m here cuz I don’t have know where else to go do you understand that if he goes out and kills somebody and you answer these questions which says it was completely and totally foreseeable you knew he drank you knew how much he drank you knew how much it impaired him and you
Knew he operated motor vehicles and had wrecked them on two different occasions how you think that’s going to look in court not good he’s going to wind up in in jail and you’re going to wind up getting civil sued and forced into bankruptcy because you’re continuing to allow that young man to kill
Himself wouldn’t you rather him at least be off the streets and sober in jail than risking his and other people’s lives on the street cuz you know he’s going to drink himself to death I want him in a treatment facility Jail’s not going to do anything for him he needs he
Needs to be in a treatment facility he doesn’t want to go to treatment he don’t have a problem does she have options she has lots of options okay and you are a lawyer I am a lawyer although you’re pretty good too Dr and you went to law
School where I went to Harvard Law School and I’ve been doing this a long time and I’m here a lot and I see this a lot so you have a Harvard lawyer here telling you you do have options okay do you want to know what they are yes do
You want to do what you need to do to get him help yes all right I got a question for Nick and I going to show him where I think he’s headed if he doesn’t kill himself when we come [Applause] [Applause] [Applause] back well Nick admits to boozing it up and partying on a daily basis now you say you would rather gather him go to treatment in jail have you ever really thought you were going to wind up in jail no I never really thought I would come come with me
I want to show you something Kathy you come as Well Step [Applause] in look around every day all day that’s what you got this is exactly precisely to scale this is the cell you would be in step up take a look that’s your son’s future he’s got three choices here he can die he can go to jail treatment or he can get
Well those are three choices that’s all there are there’s just those three right and and one of the three is going to come to fruition pretty soon I’m guessing what do you think about this doesn’t seem too fun no TV no video games there’s no music you just did something that you
Really don’t have much option to do in the future uh y’all come back down here you know we started the top of the show with a a tape piece about kids drinking and we talked about Phillip your son your brother that lost his life anything y’all want
To say to Nick I I wouldn’t know where to start if you knew what kind of pain that we go through every day of our life you wouldn’t do it to her budy you would not do that to your mother you got a big break be have a chance to have to
Be on this show I suggest that you at least try want to have more with Philip’s family and Nick and Kathy when we come [Applause] back my son philli was on spring break Philip died from alcohol cocaine and oxycotton when I saw Phil’s body for the first time was reality you can’t deny that’s his body laying on that bed cold it’s inconceivable to me that 50 his fraternity brothers were let lay down and
Die well Philip died on Spring Break um he was surrounded by his frat buddies actually 15 of them were with him uh he was drinking heavily uh he was doing drugs and there was a good news bad news thing here this wasn’t his pattern which means he wasn’t very good at it his
Parents Paul and Lynn not only blame the fraternity Brothers but also themselves for what happened to their son tell me what what have y’all come to in your thinking and feeling about this since it happened I know you’ve turned it over your mind a million times Palmer I know
You have what what what have you come to about this it was an unnecessary Death he could still be alive if they had just watched him and you you guys do blame the fraternity some the fraternity Brothers some tell me about that I do uh they were with him they
Knew what he was doing they could have stopped him they could have watched him well you know we received a statement from Sigma Alpha Epsilon and I’m going to read part of the statement now and I’ll put the whole thing on the website so you can read it but part in part the
Statement says Sigma Alpha Epsilon offers its thoughts and prayers to Christian family and friends in addition staff members and alumni volunteers will work to provide counseling and support for chapter members as necessary well Tom Kaine is the president of college safety zone he says that fraternities and sororities need to
Be regulated because students lives are in danger uh Tom is joining us via polycom Tom thank you so much for being here today you’re all over this fraternity issue tell me what tell me where the rubber meets the road here well here’s the thing Dr Phil these fraternities need to be held accountable
Do they monitor this what we because we know look I went to college and the fraternities were I mean it was just a big drunk out every weekend that’s what they did um and nobody seemed to police that in any way is that still the case
That that that is still the case and I don’t know with a particular state or a particular College but I will tell you you know youve you’ve heard the stories Dr Phil where where a student passes out or or dies and and they they go on probation and they have uh perhaps
Something revoked for a period of time well what’s the answer what what do parents do about this because K kids are going off to college every year they’re rushing to fraternities and sororities what do parents do how do they know that they’re going to send their child to
College and get them back alive listen I have a daughter in college right now Dr Phil she’s a freshman and and I’ve tried to do everything I can possibly do but high schools need to take a proactive role parents need to take a proactive
Role but I will tell you this Dr Phil I put a lot of the responsibility on the colleges on the administrators on the campus police department they are falling way short about educating these students and they’re not teaching these students what they can be in for on a
College campus and that’s where the the colleges themselves are failing the students well Tom I agree with you and I think you for weighing in on this today uh we’ve got to take a break I have one last thing to say to Nick when we come
Back well I would like to thank all of my guests today and a special thanks to family law attorney ariva Martin thank you so much for weighing in on this um special thanks to gastroenterologist and intern is torge Rodriguez thank you Dr Rodriguez uh and director for this the
Control center for addictions in Beverly Hills Dr Reef y’all do great work thank you for being here and to the president of college safety zone Tom Kane and I’m going to put links up to everyone uh that’s been on the show today so if you want to talk
To Dr ree if you want to talk to talk to Dr Rodriguez we’re going to have links there where you can reach them you can get a copy of Tom’s book how to protect yourself in college in bookstores today Nick what do you think you got a drink
And prop or you don’t uh I guess I do but I don’t want to have one mhm I don’t want to think I have one in these well you do and you know Mom I can tell you he’s killing himself and Nick you need treatment for this you need serious
Inpatient alcohol rehabilitation you need to be properly detoxified and then you need to go through a rehabilitation process process to learn what you don’t know about this disease that you have I’m going to make you an offer to put you into an inpatient rehabilitation program immediately if you are willing
To do it all right give yourself a chance will you do this [Applause] sure I’m going to send you to the origins Recovery Center it is top top notch the only thing wrong with it is it’s almost too nice it’s on an island it’s in the ocean
It’s a wonderful place but they’re going to give you what you need and and quite frankly Nick they’re going to give you what you deserve going to give you a second chance young man thanks for being here so Long today on Dr Phil they’re happily married but they’re both having sex with various other people this is going to get complicated so I have my trusty pointer you said Mommy and Daddy have other loves what kind of Damages are they doing to these children are they ever
Jealous some guy is going to be laying on top of my wife you tell me that doesn’t go through your head or have they worked out all the Kinks we have to start to ask ourselves are we going to get on an airplane who are you talking
To I’m talking to everyone I’m talking to America well talk to me she has an open marriage we are love coaches I think that current mod relation excuse me together excuse me and a mouth that never closes you can’t dominate the entire conversation can I say one thing really
Quick let’s do it if we’re going to do something here that matters then we got got to deal with the truth have a good show everybody here we go if I can help get this family back on track are you willing to do that FR free
Take this is going to be a changing day in your [Applause] life well today we’re talking to a husband named Carl and his wife Kenya but I warn you this is going to get complicated so I have my trusty pointer now Kenya’s husband is Carl and
He has a girlfriend josn yes I said girlfriend now this is Joslyn’s husband Darren now he is aware and approves of his wife sleeping with Carl and just to make this more eyebrow raising in Charles is sleeping with Kenya okay confusing right well let me explain Carl
And Kenya have been in what they call an open marriage for five years and they’re both having sexual relationships with various other people they say this is the best solution to a happy marriage take a look then we’ll talk Carl and I have been in an open marriage for five
Years Carl and I did not have an open marriage when we first got married I had a regular wedding a regular marriage and I had a regular husband in a monogamous relationship Ken and I have been married about 11 years when we started a discussion around opening our
Relationship I had company too I know this particular person I have an attraction for him but I don’t know that he’s ready after the ups and downs of going through two full years of discussing this without having any outside relationships I went to a conference and I met a man that was love
At first sight and she said Carl I met somebody I really like the guy and I told her to go ahead and go with it and you have my support and I’m behind you all the way I felt like this was a gift from my husband a gift of my own freedom
Without having to lose the commitment my first experience outside of our marriage was a mutual friend and we ended up spending some intimate time together it just felt wonderful it felt like my birthday but what happened when you have a girlfriend really when my husband and I went from monogamous marriage to open
Marriage everything changed I felt like I came out of hiding my husband came alive I came alive after that first experience I never even thought about going back to monogamy currently I have two intimate Partners but I have five people that I would consider to be my
Partners since we open our marriage I’ve probably had I don’t know five Partners opening my marriage has saved my life has made me a new person I am love I can experience love from everywhere now okay those involved in this open marriage concept say that in
Order to pull this off you need a rule book so they’ve got a rule book take a look when we first started our open relationship we had rules you know no sex in our bedroom you got to tell the person before you date somebody if I had
Somebody over at the house I would use a blowup mattress we kind of figure something out but looking back on it is kind of weird today instead of rules we have principles the first one is there’s to be no shame and no blame the second principle is that there’s to be no
Victims the third thing is that the purpose is growth and finally no cop outs no dropouts we do not agree with leaving to be honest I don’t always use condoms I trust his Instinct if he feels that this is necessary to use protection at this point fantastic if he doesn’t
Feel that I know that he doesn’t feel it because he feels safe and I trust his intuition okay so you guys have been doing this arrangement for how long well Dr Phil can I just say something first sure we practice Progressive love it’s not just open marriage open marriage is
A relationship style it’s like monogamy or polygamy or whatever so we practice Progressive love and what that means is we’re allowed to show up authentically with each other that we trust each other we love each other unconditionally and other than that we are love coaches so we support others in having this
Progressive love style first of all I think that current modern relationships are an epic fail now if something is failing 55% of the time which is the modern marriage we have to start to ask ourselves are we going to get on an airplane if they’re failing 55% of the
Time and we most of us in audience are going to say no we’re not going to get on the airplane if you know it’s going to crash 50% of the time so what we’ve done is hold hold on hold on aren’t you bubbly yes I am I should be right I have
Many minut well who are you who are you talking to I’m talking to everyone I’m talking to America well talk to me I’m talking to you well you’re talking to the audience like you’re selling something I want you to understand because what we’ve just seen here is
Well if you want me to understand talk to me well they saying okay so Progressive love that sounds to me like semantics I I don’t know what you mean Progressive love I mean iive is you’re the ones that said it what do you mean Progressive love basically means that
First of all we believe relationships are for growth First Love and Happiness are a result of two people working together through the challenges of their Union so if you think you’re going to go into a relationship and they not going to be any challenges or you’re not going
To have to change or grow then you have the wrong idea of the purpose of the relationship what we’re talking about when we say progressive love is a new way to look at love it’s not about sex it’s about four principles that we haven’t even been begun to address I put
Together a little review of what you guys did last night okay when when you got here to La so much fun according to you you had dinner in your hotel room with your boyfriend Charles yes okay and Y all requested different hotels yes so
You could be free to do what you want to do hot rooms we’re right down the hall yeah but you didn’t stay together no okay and so you said Charles rubbed your feet and your back while you made a few work calls and you said he quote healed
And soothed you yes okay now according to Charles you spent the morning making love spent the night holding each other yes and he left your room about 6:00 a.m. to get ready for the show yes Carl and Joslyn who were on our chart they spent the night separately and didn’t do
Anything josn husband spent the evening in the lobby bar with with himself and then woke up with Joslyn but they weren’t intimate so it seems like the only one that hooked up here was you uh with Char where were you last night I was in my hotel room what’ you do just
Going to sleep jet lag from the East Coast or whatever the important thing is the important thing is I’m going to see Joselyn in a couple days she wanted to spend tonight with her husband Joselyn text me so Joselyn and I were texting you guys forgot that in your notes
Joselyn and I were texting all afternoon she was like where are you at oh my gosh we’re at a different Hotel I said come up to my room have a drink with us enjoy I love Joselyn but see oh I’m glad you do um but see here here’s my thing I’m
Just going to be honest about this please if if I lived all the way across the country that trip would mean more to me if I shared it with my wife sure we’ve shared it together I don’t want to come I’m telling you my thinking it’s
And it’s the same way like when I go with when I take my boys somewhere when I take no listen and I have shared EXC together excuse me I’m talking I didn’t interrupt you when you were talking except when you were talking to them um
When I go somewhere like with my boys I I want them to see the fish I want them to catch the fish I want them to see the sunset if I go somewhere with my wife I want to share it with her sure I don’t want to come out here get a separate
Room and hook up with somebody else if you do that know the full scope the important thing is that this is the very first time Ken and I have gone on a trip and not had the same room every other business trip we’ve taken on vacation
We’ve always had one room so in talking about the show the idea came up about having separate rooms and we said oh that sounds great well you requested separate rooms right we both did yes we were both on the three-way together and we’ve been wonderfully happy in our
Separate rooms and we said I said oh my gosh I can spread my makeup all over the counter I can spread everything and there’s no television I don’t watch television so I don’t like the TV on he likes the TV on it’s just been like wow
I feel like I’m in a suite of bliss in separate rooms separate rooms has nothing to do with spending time with another partner if she wanted to spend time with with a boyfriend or partner I would go ahead and leave or give them that space if you were there and and Charles showed
Up and said you know I want to spend some time you’d go oh well let me get my stuff and well no you hang out for a while I would talk with Charles you know I would hang out with him we would maybe have a couple of drinks and if we
Decided that and Ken you want to spend time alone then I would oblig that okay so what you say to yourself is okay here in about 10 minutes this guy is going to be laying on top of my wife so I think I’ll go off somewhere else you tell me
That doesn’t go through your headed with I know what you’re doing with that all right we got to take a break here next we’re going to meet Kenya’s boyfriend Carl’s girlfriend and his girlfriend’s husband and your boyfriend I got a I got a a dance card for this we’re going to
Find out who is jealous of whom and who is not not using [Applause] protection if this is all so great and so wonderful why are you hiding your face very good question and later children have a lot of questions about sex and relationships we’re willing to talk to them about porn I’ve watched porn with my daughter I’ve helped them understand what this is how
It is just one part of sex there’s so much more sex is so Juicy and Delicious and wonderful stunning allegations n Grid’s second ex-wife marann gingr says he told her he wanted an open marriage the request came after he admitted he was having an affair I said to him we’ve
Been married a long time and he said yes but you want me all to yourself he was asking to have an open marriage and I refused your ex-wife says you asked her sir to enter into an open marriage would you like to take some time to respond to that no but I
Will well it must be noted that n gingr said the allegations against him were false and he did consider those to be allegations that he needed to defend so he didn’t consider it to be a positive thing based on what he said now his second wife Maryanne as you just saw
Claims that she said no to open marriage but my guests today say yes to sharing their spouses with other people you might call it open marriage you might call it Progressive love let’s hear the reasons why Carl and Kenya say they feel traditional monogamous marriage is flawed I have no regrets about open
Marriage and I would never consider going back to traditional marriage if I had to choose between monogamy and open then I’d choose open every time when I look back I feel like oh my gosh how was I in that little box when I had a feeling of love for another woman I felt
A little ashamed about that like something was wrong with me and I think traditional marriage tells us that you really can’t have those feelings and if you do that’s wrong human beings are clearly not monogamous monogamy means you meet a partner you m with that partner and you me for life if that
Partner passes on so does your sex drive do you understand so now raise your hand if you’re monogamous right no one the culture is the one that practices a monogamous Choice all Kenya’s partner Charles and Carl’s girlfriend Joslyn are joining us now so you guys have been
Watching the show sure so far how are they doing it characterizing all of this doing great yeah yes absolutely they’re representing what we understand is a progressive love relationship so it’s uh they’ve been doing wonderful we’re referring to you as Charles yes but that’s not your real name and we’re not
Showing your face I mean these people can see it and but we’re actually shooting you from behind at your request right okay okay if this is all so great and so wonderful why are you hiding your face very good question good question um the reason is because I am
Uh ending a relationship and the timing of the show came before that was actually that’s happened so I have to wait if the show happened probably a couple months from now I would show my face I don’t I’m not scared to have to show my face you’re ending a
Relationship yes a a married relationship or yes okay so you’re married to somebody you’ve separated for a year and you’ve been separated for a year and you’ve been involved in this Progressive love for how long um Progressive love for probably about about a year either you share everything
With your partner and we mean everything or you don’t if you don’t then you’re lying you’re being dishonest and it shows you don’t have a real connection with your partner right an open relationship is one in which you can show up as a real person in the relationship and tell the truth and
Reveal your real self to your partner let’s say for instance I touched your arm and you go home and right now you feel a little tingling in your body somewhere which you don’t of course but you go home let’s just say let’s just say let’s just say is right to come
Robin come on Robin now look now look we’re saying that why can’t you go home and tell Robin Robin today I touched this woman touched me I never knew her she’s kind of crazy and really loud but she gave me this this wonderful sensation in my body I don’t know what
It was but it was very similar to like a blissful feeling why would you be able to tell your partner that most people do not and cannot well I I wouldn’t I wouldn’t tell her that for three reasons number one why wouldn’t you tell that
Well number one it would be a lie cuz that isn’t the feeling that I had we’re doing we’re I’m I’m being ridiculous yes I’m saying that these are things that people can’t talk to their spouse about the second second reason I wouldn’t tell her the second reason I
Wouldn’t tell her is because I don’t like open head wounds and she would probably she would bust in the head was that Tiger Wood White no and it but actually the truth is that wouldn’t threaten her at all because you’re looking at the most secure woman in the world let me tell you
And it shouldn’t I am open in my relationship I am honest with my relationship I don’t need to go spend the night with josin to do that that’s not the point that’s that’s what I’m saying that’s you’re making my point you have two you call them Partners yes at
This point and you’re married I am married so you’ve got a husband I have a husband and then you’ve got two Partners yes I do okay and how does your husband feel about that he feels great he feels um like you know we are completely honest about what we feel uh first of
All uh with us opening up a relationship this decision came together it was about was that an issue for you Darren not at all not at all and do how do you guys deal with the jealousy well I call it my little jealous monster but the first thing you
Have to do is recognize that you’re jealous and I’m not going to lie to you I do get jealous you know it’s a natural thing but I have to recognize it first and by recognizing it I’m a better person my wife is with other men she is happy she
Comes home to me and at the end of the day she’s a better person cuz she’s been healed by love okay and uh and this is and it’s and it’s happy but here’s why can’t you heal her with love oh I do oh I do I
Do oh I do I do but that’s like me saying don’t go to the doctor no other man can make you feel better like I am there are other men out there I’m not the hottest thing in creation I do look good but I’m not the hottest thing all
Right I realize that I am not the only one that can give my wife happiness yes and if I’m committed to my wife I’m committed to her happiness we have to take a break we’re going to meet Carl’s mother she said she was in quote shock
And awe when she heard about their open marriage uh plus we’ll hear how Carl and Kenya’s children feel about their parents’ lifestyle yeah and why Kenya watches porn with her 11-year-old daughter wow you have serious concerns and I know that I’m on the right track and feeling
The way I feel these kids have to have I am worried I am concerned and later my children accepted and saw what we were doing as something that was cooler than cool this is what every relationship really needs they embraced it as if my parents have discovered
Electricity what I’m looking for when I look for a partner it’s not a sex partner I’m looking for long-term love Partners my desire is not to go and have sex with as many men as possible if I go to town I want Kenya to be with someone
I don’t want her to be alone my husband May arrange a trip to go see one of his partners and he’ll call my boyfriend and ask for my boyfriend to come take care of me at the house I want her Partners there so she feels more fulfilled they
Do everything that my husband would have done had he been home we have wine at night we dance we have romance we do everything that my husband and I would do except my husband husband’s not there it’s almost like having replacement husbands and you rotate them in it’s really
Great I love that well you just heard right Carl and Kenya are married and talking about how they incorporate their girlfriends and boyfriends into their daily lives they refer to this as Progressive love let’s hear what Carl’s mother has to say about their open marriage after 17
Years I am disappointed that my son and my daughter-in-law are in an open marriage this was such a betrayal to their marriage it’s unfaithful to have another partner openly have another partner I almost wish that they were discreet with it just to even hear them talking about it it felt dirty it did
Feel dirty I don’t disagree with them being honest with each other but again should the children know every Nick little blow and Nick and N I don’t feel the children should be a part of of that I really have serious concerns that this open marriage may damage the
Children well Joanne is here in the audience thanks for coming today Dr Phil thank you thank you you you’ve got some of the same questions about this that I do yes uh it bothers you what it what about it bothers you well I have to say that I
First that I disapprove I I just don’t agree with having partners outside of the marriage and more than that I am more than that concerned about my grandchildren I want to say that my grandchildren are aware of this um Rel their relationship this open marriage and I don’t I don’t agree that they
Should be involved in it or that they should know about it it should be at least discreet that’s my opinion I don’t think it should happen at all but for my children would you say the same thing about Children of Divorce what about them would you say
That they are in a bad situation as well I I do I think any any child that goes through any type of divorce also has some issues and I can speak to it and my son has spoken about it but I I just think when they when you are a union and
You are married and you have people partners that you’re children know about even and love and you know I just I I I have issues with it and I’m very concerned Dr Phil what is the research or the experience that you’ve had that of of people who are in open marriages
What what is your experience for the children well I have I have two rules that I’ve adhered to across a long period of time and when you’re dealing with children and one is never involve children in things over which they have no control because then they just worry
And feel helpless so turn off the television complely and number two don’t ask them to deal with adult issues their brains are not through growing yet and when you’re talking to an 11-year-old about these issues you know what message you send but it’s hard to know what message is received what I’m
Saying is that I watched porn with my daughter a two second clip because I wanted to show her that her friend had come over and showed her porn and I wanted to tell her that we don’t believe pornography is sex we don’t watch pornography and we don’t think it’s actually sex sex
Is sent us a video where Kenya adits to engaging in a controversial practice in an effort to teach her 11-year-old daughter about the birds and the Beast take a look and I’m pren children have a lot of questions about sex and relationships so we don’t we never shut
Them down down about these questions if you don’t tell children the truth and deal with their reality like as their their hormones start to change and whatever then they’re going to lose faith in you as a source of information a source of truthfulness and that which
Is why a lot of children kind of move away from their parents as they get older and don’t consult them or don’t talk to them about what’s going on in their life right so we share everything with our children we’re willing to talk to them about porn I’ve watched porn
With my daughter I’ve helped them understand what this is how it is just one part of sex there’s so much more sex is so Juicy and Delicious and wonderful I don’t scare my children about sex and tell them oh it’s just a danger of sex I
Would never do that I told my daughter that sex for her is going to be luscious she’s going to enjoy every second of it and I help them understand that masturbation is normal touching yourself is normal your body is beautiful you are normal if you have sexual desires that
Is normal my children have condoms if they bring boyfriends home girlfriends they are totally welcome to be in our house we don’t have a closed door idea about sex and sensuality we think that that is the most detrimental thing that you can do to a child okay hang on just one second just
One second Joan then I want to come right back to you okay we just played that tape which were all your words yes and then you said I took the my quote out of context yes are you kidding that I watch porn with my daughter well I
Just played the entire snippet you went further than I I thought you took the snippet of me saying I watch porn with my daughter but you played the entire video that’s why I hold on thank you I accept your apology because I don’t I don’t do that and I’m offended when
People suggest I do that’s why we played the whole thing Joanne your comment my concern again is is the children what kind of Damages are are we are they doing to these children I’m concerned they have the very best I’m trying to figure out the danger talk dangerous now
Possibly what getting into drugs drugs being honest getting into drugs because their parents are honest with them children get into drugs because their parents don’t even speak to them at all and are not honest with them and have never told them about sensu never told them that
They’re have serious concerns and I know that I’m on the right track and and feeling the way I feel these kids have to have I am worried I am concerned we’re actually going to hear what the children had to say when we come back and I have
To tell you that this tape Disturbed me more than the one you just watched we’ll be right Back now wait a minute wait a minute don’t give me that condescending you just heard her say she sat down and watched pornography with her daughter well Carl and Kenya reveal how they explain their open marriage lifestyle to their children I have a problem with that I think you know before the break
You were saying Charles that well what are the dangers here show me a danger I’m going to tell you what the dangers are my friend these children go through developmental benchmarks where they reach certain levels of maturity certain levels of understanding they get to the point of not being suggestible guided
They brains aren’t through growing yet and until their brain is through growing the last part that grows is the neocortex which allows them to predict the consequences of their actions if you load them up with adult decisions adult content things that can have a huge backlash on them later in their lives
You’ve given them stuff they can’t do it’s like asking the child to get you know that’s what we’re loading them up with you didn’t take a full scope of what we do our children no we didn’t Kenya you can’t dominate the entire conversation there are other people here
Tell the truth D we’re going to tell the truth here I agree with I agree with you and I agree with you that children are sponges they absorb everything we put in front of them absolutely one of your rules is don’t involve them with adult decisions is love one of them I think
Sex is okay and I completely agree with you I completely agree with you all right we don’t have sex wait a minute minute don’t get me that condescending you just heard her say she sat down and watched pornography porn friend has sh her porn I wanted to tell her that pornography is
Not sex it is abuse of women children are watching this stuff so when when my children’s friends are showing them pornography we have to go back and say Here’s what they showed you and here’s what this is we don’t sit there and just watch porn with them we got to go back
And put it in context we saying this is not sex this is Abus of women I want to be very clear here Kenya interviewed her own children and asked the these questions I say this you guys asked me to interview my children and ask these
Questions I okay I I want I want I don’t sit interview my children every day and say what you guys think they ask me to interview them my kids know that Ken and I are open in our marriage they know that we have our partners I think that
It’s best for them really to have all these partners because they have people to relate with and they’re not stuck with the same person we said Mommy and Daddy are about to start an entire new model we thought of it ourselves and this is what it looks like
We have other love you can’t live with the same person for your whole life it’s just not going to happen NADA zero my oldest son said oh my gosh so does that mean that you can have sex with somebody else and you know Daddy can do the same
Thing and you guys aren’t going to break up like my neighbors and my other friends parents and I said yes we’re not going to break up like those people if I did get married I would be open because I don’t like the idea of being with one
Person for a long time my children accepted and saw what we were doing as something that was cooler than cool this is what every relationship really needs they embrace it as if my parents have discovered electricity and we’re very proud that they’re very proud of Us well all right let me say this first off first first of all let me say this first off your children are beautiful kids by the way and Brilliant and they’re they’re obviously intelligent and articulate and so I mean great kids congratulations on that I think this
Content that you’re dealing with them is premature okay I think it’s premature to be T do think ages to introduce them to some stuff I I think it comes y’all missed the the question which I think is a good question is what is the proper age to do that you know I
Think first off you always use age appropriate terms with them that are within their grasp at the time and I think a a good time A good measure for this is when they start to show genuine Curiosity on their own those children are probably saying what the parents
Want to say they want to please the parents I know that for a fact that children do that so children oforce I think Children of Divorce say things to please their parents like I’m happy mommy and dad SE I don’t know that they do that they don’t do that let her
Speak let her speak please yeah I just I just feel that the children are wanting to please the parents I don’t know what they’re feeling inside and no one knows what anyone sometimes feels inside but I am very much concerned to hear Z say that because zenu is a child she’s 11
Years old the last part of that clip no wait the last part of that clip she said she asked the question would you do this and she said I don’t think she would not do this so she had think on her own again do not know and I am really
Concerned we don’t know she said I put the clip on Facebook the whole thing that Prov if my daughter says I’m not going to do the open relationship that shows she can think but I’m saying children become victims because they’re not victim of their wait a minute when
Children when children come to this world they should be awarded to the because their parents whatever their parents May teach them could be bad or wrong there are 33,000 religions in this country which ones are wrong to teach children there are more than one love style what about gay lesbian these are
Things that children learn from television from their parents there’s nothing wrong with it I don’t see it children the ones that really become the ones that are addicted to porn the ones that are on drugs the one that doing Crim and the ones that don’t have these conversations with their parents I’m
Sure you ask the kids did your parents talk to you about sex no no no they talk to about drugs no was dirty it’s wrong but if she’s saying look this is love this is not and she’s teaching them the right way respectfully you know it’s
Listen I totally get that you don’t want your kids to learn this from behind the gym what happened and I had to re you know I’ve joked before when my dad came and said you know we need to talk about sex and I said okay what do you want to
Know um I was in I was in the sixth grade cuz I thought I knew everything at that point but uh but okay now can we just cut to something really Qui let me I want to ask you a question can I say one thing really quick and then I’ll answer you
Question so what are children so what our children have seen let me ask you the question yes you Y come on I submit I Surrender thank you lovingly no here’s here’s what I want to I’m actually going to I’m actually going to give you an opportunity to talk
Oh go ahead um here and try not I’ll take it I will feel bad to be I don’t know what’s wrong Howard University girls because I I get the feeling I get the feeling that if somebody disagrees with you you decide they’re not being fair no I don’t because that’s what I
Believe they have a different Ty perspective no listen let me finish and that they’re not educated on what we do I just wanted to talk to my mother I wanted to tell her that this is what our children have seen from day one they’ve seen my husband stay home and let me be
A stay-at-home mother for 13 years in our home they saw me defeat cancer in the hospital with no hair they saw my husband be there for me they saw Our House burn down and we had nothing left they saw us move in with Community because nobody could move we couldn’t
Move anywhere they saw us go through learning 11 years years of of yoga meditation they’ seen me retire my husband they’ve seen us write 14 books they’ve seen me write 400 articles and blog post they’ve seen people all over the world call me for consultation this
Is what they’ve seen But Kenya this is what you’ve seen as well yes SE let’s talk about the entire picture if we’re going to talk about our I I do not disagree you you are good parents never in in any of said that you were not a
Good parent well then talk about the entire school no but Ken we’re not here to talk about the entire we’re here to talk about we have come out on top okay we’ll be right back thank [Applause] you people absolutely judge My Lifestyle the number one idea is that it is not
Safe it puts you in a precarious situation now you don’t have a stable family I would beg to differ I feel more stable now teachers have told my children that what they’re doing is illegal we’re not marrying multiple people we’re not practicing something that’s against the law I know that
People say how can you be a mother and do this so they have motherhood disconnected from sensuality that’s not my problem I connect motherhood in Sensuality all right I’m here with Carl uh Kenya Charles who’s Kenya’s lover Joslin who’s Carl’s lover Darren Joslyn’s husband is in the audience here um where are you going I’m sorry I hit to my legs are ashy I can’t be this I have to have some lotion I keep asking
And no one’s giving it to me I’m sorry if your legs were ashy if you were an African-American woman and your legs are exposed you would feel badly if everyone saw your legs ashy we did ask I asked three times well yes I understand that you asked the producer
But we’re not here about the ash on her legs come on guys pH I wish I had he said I mean people are very impressionable about things boo to my ashy legs or to the ones that are nice now it’s all going to be cut out it’s not a big deal no you
Guys come on what if it were you everything that Kenya Dr Phil everything that Kenya said about the their life they have been good parents and they have gone through a lot and we’re not I’m not judging the fact and I know what has taken place I’ve been
There every step of the way right but I do not agree with open marriage I have to I have to be clear but you don’t have to I don’t and I’m not judging you you are adults you’re going to do what you’re going to do but I’m saying I am
Concerned about the children I have to be clear about we like that we like that that’s good but don’t say that they’re going to be messed up for Life am concerned we’re concerned about children too okay one thing that we haven’t talked about so far and this is what
Carl has to say about not always using a condom not always practicing safe sex you say that the number one cause of sexually transmitted disease is fear yes no that the number one the number one way to protect yourself from sexually transmitted disease or anything is to
Not have such a fear of it right cuz you’re not sneaking and you’re not running and hiding and doing things I ask Carl this question so what all I’m saying is is that if you have a fear which I think a lot of people do a fear of a sexually transmitted disease it
Affects your ability to think and rationalize we all know studies show that your IQ drops 5 to 15 points when you’re stressed out or over emotional so that’s no way to go into people can laugh if they want but that’s no way to go into something so serious as sharing
Your body with another person so your your theory if I can extrapolate this is that the number one cause of TDs is fear because fear causes stress stress compromises the autoimmune system that makes you more susceptible to infection is that your that’s part that is part of
It no I’m asking car that is part of it that is part of it okay I would think the number one cause of STDs would be exposing yourself to somebody who’s infected okay good that right I use condom sometimes I don’t use condom sometimes we do certain things
For birth control I’m just trying to keep it you know that’s how I I look at it I’m not saying don’t use condoms or those types of things I think those are great but to me also just using the condom without having the conversation is not safe because a condom a condom
Does not protect everything number one if you have sex a hundred times in the cond fails one time or you don’t use it one time you might as well not use it any of those times so well you can get infected one time you can get you can
Get infected one time you can get infected one time so the conversation should be deeper than just I’m going to automatically wear a condom and I think about certain STDs are are not guarded by using condoms doctors say herpes and things like that can get past a comma we need
To have the conversation down and stop thinking sex is dirty so they can get tested so they can be responsible and so that they can choose Partners wisely and have sex wisely without running and slinking and cheating and oh my God my wife I I mean it’s ridiculous well um
Kids kids if you’re watching this uh uh UNC Uncle Phil Uncle Phil says use a condom we’ll be right back do [Applause] KY well I want to thank all of my guests today I know you’re going to be on the message boards talking about this and I I do want to hear from you you can go to our Facebook page you can go to our message boards you can go to my Twitter
Account and i’ I’d love to hear from you and I know you blog about these things things and I’m happy to put a link up there to you so people can find it and they can read it in their own time and their own way and and make up their own
Mind so I appreciate all of y’all coming here knowing that you have a position that’s not widely embraced that’s okay and uh so uh and audience I appreciate yall weighing in because I think you uh I think you disagree with a lot of things but we appreciate you being here so long thanks
Today on Dr Phil I’m scared the death of my son they claim they’re terrorized so you say your daughter has abused is so bad that you dream about killing her by their own children did you threaten to burn her house down yeah like this at your face m m listen
To me m listen to the well I can’t understand how in the world they have trouble communicating the physical do you manage your mother by intimidation no I don’t believe that and I don’t believe you believe it and emotional toll I don’t know how much better role model I can be
You’re perfect you’re you’re a great role model and we all can’t stand to be around you is it parental abuse Dr Phil I suffer every type of abuse emotional physical verbal mental the person who’s doing this to me just needs to vanish Dr Phil I need your help
So desperately I am in a very abusive relationship with someone I love very much he makes my hair stand up on end I’m in fear all the time please help those two women say they are embarrassed by the abuse they endure day in and day out from intimidating
In-your-face threats all the way to hitting slapping and being pushed down the stairs but there is a huge problem for them both divorcing their abusers is not an option because they say the person terrorizing them is not their spouse but their own adult child now mothers Debbie
And Joanne are here and both say they feel more like battered wives than loving mothers now Debbie you say your 31-year-old daughter Amy’s abuse is so bad that you actually dream about killing her true true I I I it’s a horrible thing to um want to feel or say
You just want you’re just so desperate to have the abuse stop you don’t actually want her to die of course you just want the pain to stop you want the conflict to stop I want yes and Joanne you’re worried that you’re 28-year-old old son Jonathan could become so angry
That he could hurt you even by accident when he’s raging yes yes Dr Phil he is he is so outraged sometimes he doesn’t know what he’s doing I’m just so scared all the time you don’t know how to stand up to it there’s a huge difference in
Size and power right I can’t I can’t stand up to him you know it’s just it’s just very scary all the time why did you want to be here today because I want to have have a loving normal healthy relationship with my daughter and I want
To be free from the burdens of the drama that she creates in my life why here why now I have nowhere else to turn I’m desperate I’ve tried every Avenue this was my last resort why for you why do you want to be here why now this is a a last resort for
Me as well I’m just so desperate for my son to get help well the truth is I I wish you would have both come here first instead of last because maybe we would have saved a lot of time and a lot of trouble we’ll see Debbie says her
Daughter Amy makes her life so miserable she wishes she would just vanish take a look Amy is abusive to me she’s overthe toop volatile calls me everything in the book you the word [ __ ] emia is belligerent she’s a spoiled brat she makes my life miserable the first time I
Ever noticed any physical abuse was when Amy was 16 she’s shoving and kicking and biting me and pulling my hair and pushing me down to my own staircase I have no idea why I didn’t call the police I guess I’m thinking that she’s 16 she’s a child Amy is 15 years older
Now and she is worse than ever the last time Amy was physical with me was about a month ago she pushed and shoved me into the wall she kicked me she pulled my hair she slapped me oh she slapped me good there’s days when I’m so overwhelmed and I think horrible
Thoughts sometimes I just wish I could just put a pillow over her head just make her go away I just don’t want her to live with me this way and I don’t want her to live in this world this way well Amy actually admits to being cruel and nasty towards her mother but
Says that Debbie is far from innocent when it comes to abusive behavior let’s hear her side my mom is mean and nasty and a psycho she doesn’t realize how critical she can be my mom says that I’m white trash she definitely thinks that I’m way way beneath her my mom tells me
I’ve failed I’ll never be good enough there’s only so many never mind whatever Amy this is where we come into a roadblock because we just going to agree to disagree when we argue in her eyes it is my fault I’m all to blame can’t hear you I know she says I’ve slapped her
Punched her scratched her but I’ve never done any of that I’ve only pushed her against the wall to get out of the way and get away from her she claims I I pushed her down the stairs then I don’t remember that my mom is a pathological
Liar when I was 16 my mom found cigarettes in the trunk of my car she held a knife to my throat said she would kill me lit up the cigarette and burned me with it and wanted to make me smoke the whole she can be a raging
[ __ ] I sense that you disagree with a lot of what was said there yeah I do but your daughter’s here of course and you’re okay with me bringing her out we’re going to talk to her we’re going to get to the bottom of this I hope good
I’m looking forward to it all right let’s bring Amy out Amy Dr Phil how are you nice to meet you have a seat you know one of the things that I think um people would say about me is that I get to it quick you know I could
See you guys in private practice and we could sit there and I could go mhm yes and how does that make you feel and yes how does that make you feel and how does it make you feel that she feels that way about the way you feel you we could go
Through all of this typical model but that’s not what I like to do I like to get to the point and deal with things efficiently and that requires something here it requires you and you to make a threshold decision and the threshold decision is that you’re going to be honest you’re not
Going to spin it you’re not going to try to cover your ass you’re not going to try to put the best look to this that you possibly can you’re just going to be honest because I assume you want this to change right it has to why because uh
I’m going to end up in a mental institute if it doesn’t are you prepared to be just completely honest here absolutely perfectly honest cuz nobody’s perfect in these matters are you willing to be honest I’m willing to be honest I know I’m not perfect I know I’ve made a
Lot of mistakes I’m here to try to figure out what they are and how to move forward did she lie in in her tape yeah I never came at you with a knife she said you held a knife to her throat that is a lifethreatening action
And you don’t tell me you don’t remember let’s see did I do that that’s not lost in the background of your life if you hold a knife to your child’s throat you don’t forget that you saw on the video she wants me dead Did you threaten to burn her house down yeah yeah and later Mom Mom Mom Mom listen to me listen to listen to me listen to listen to me we were at my store and we were having another discussion about either her being late or her taking money out
Of my business and I grabbed her arm as she’s trying to leave and she pushed and shoved me and kicked me trying to come after me I threw one of the dog kles in her way to block her she went and hit the floor and at that point I really
Didn’t even care if she was hurt because I know that her intention was to hurt me badly she said you held a knife to her throat that is a lifethreatening action and you don’t tell me you don’t remember let’s see did I do that that’s not lost
The background of your life if you hold a knife to your child’s throat you don’t forget that you saw in the video she wants me dead that is not I don’t want you Dead Amy I love you I want the pain to stop want me to vanish no I I is I
Never came at you with a knife orever put a knife to your throat or anything ever I know I do remember saying okay you know what you want to smoke a cigarette smoke a whole pack make yourself so sick you’ll never smoke again well that didn’t work did you burn
It with the cigarette I know ever remember buring her with a cigarette I might if I did if she claims I did it was in pure accident I never and I’m totally being honest with you that’s not what you said you said she got a cigarette she lit it got it burning hot
And burned you with it burned my shirt with it yes burned your shirt or burned you well she was trying to burn me yeah I had go on I probably did burn your shirt I was probably trying to ruin something because I’m trying to get your
Attention but no I never came at you to hurt you or burn you okay this I say we’re going to have agree to disagree because you if she can’t be honest this is not going to happen let’s see where you are on the honesty scale here do you have any
Ownership in this situation at all absolutely okay what what are you doing that’s inappropriate here I’m not being the bigger person and and refusing to get involved in her well you’re sitting here kind of self-righteously and sacrimonious this just won’t work she isn’t going to be
Honest let’s see if you’re going to be honest did you threaten to burn her house down yeah yeah I mess with her a lot why would you say that grinning ear to ear you threaten to burn the woman’s house there’s nothing I can do to her there’s nothing I
Cannot get her to listen to me I can’t she can hurt me and hurt me and hurt me all she wants and I can do nothing did you threaten to burn her clothes yeah you’re a guest in her home right yeah you live in her home mhm under her roof
MH at her expense m so why do you live in her house she invited me she took me out of my apartment which I was doing just fine him for 5 years but why do you stay why did you say yes why don’t you move
Because now I’m in a position where I I I can’t get out yet why because I don’t make enough money to move out do you pay any rent do you pay utilities do you pay I all the util well not all the not all of the utilities but
There are Utilities in my name don’t laugh okay I’ll take them out of my name then how’s that okay cuz when I’m get home back to pack I’m gone Amy I’m gone dead to you Amy I know I know you think you’re dead to me you’re not I’m here
Because I want some help and I want you to understand how you contribute to your own demise and how you affect everybody in the family not just me really it’s all me okay well actually it’s not but you said did you say that she is a psychor raging [ __ ] yep cuz she
Is you don’t like me it’s plain and simple that’s all it firstborn I love you very much you were the best thing that ever happened I we your husbands but Amy you tend because you were the center of attention as a child you still wanted the spotlight and you do even if
It’s negative attention you want it are you messing with drugs no I did back in my in my younger days 10 years 10 years ago are you doing drugs now no did you find some crystal meth in her purse recently y I did how recently uh it was
September 9th what were you doing with crystal meth in your Purse her room it’s a filthy disgusting mess she smokes in her room and I said no smoking she throws clothes all over the place now she brings a cat into the house poop all over the place she says get used to it or off Mom are you doing drugs now no did you
Find some crystal meth in her purse recently yep what were you doing with crystal meth in your purse being stupid so you were doing drugs for a day I mean for a day I don’t know if you just do crystal well because what I used to do was every day okay but
So for years okay you did it every day are you doing drugs now no could you pass a drug test right now if I give you a drug test right now you can pass it yes because if you were on drugs that would determine erratic Behavior perhaps
Particularly if you’re doing them on and off and on and off no my my beh has always been the same right it’s always been the same Amy you’ve always you’ve never changed Debbie says stealing money straight from her businesses is not okay with you that’s just St then come run
Your own business or pay me one of many examples that you say you need help with because you’ve got some sense of entitlement according to you take a look at this I have spent over $100,000 in the last 12 years in support with my daughter and her children and all I’ve
Gotten back is abuse so she moves in 3 weeks later my husband moves out because he didn’t want to be around the drama with Amy that’s ridiculous her room it’s a filthy disgusting mess she smokes in a room and I said no smoking she throws clothes all over the place now she
Brings a cat into the house poop all over the place she says get used to it or off mom you’re just a royal [ __ ] you’re royal pain in my ass stay out of my damn broom I do a lot around the house to help out if I vacuum I didn’t
Mop there’s always something I didn’t do I come home with a week’s worth of dishes laying in the sink the other day she told me she would call the sheriff if the dishes weren’t done it’s not even logical she wants her house to be a
Model home all the time I don’t know why if Amy didn’t have kids she would not be living here absolutely not I don’t know where she’d be on the street some guy’s couch I don’t care but you do care I do care why do you say you don’t
Care you know because the more I help Amy it doesn’t seem like it helps Amy and so I have tried to okay mom when she had her apartment I I paid her electric bill uh I bought her groceries I paid her rent when she was short uh whatever
I had to do I did to help her out and that didn’t work and I said you know what Amy I can’t keep this up I not that you need it all the time but you know you can make the choice you can either you’re getting evicted you can either
Come into my house do you demean her do I demean her yeah do you say you’re a failure uh you’re a bad mother you’re worthless I mean do you demean her do you put her down I do think her mothering skills are not great I think I
Know I’ve told her your mother you suck as a mom you’re not here with your children you’re not doing what you’re supposed to be doing how can you leave dishes in the sink for three days four days five days in a row how can their children be digging through the dirty
Clothes for something to wear to school so I’d say that’s a big yes you do demeanor yes okay are you not doing your job as a mother I’m not her but my kid I I don’t no I don’t agree with that okay so you are being a good mother yes okay
You had crystal meth in your purse a month ago okay is that being a good mother I suppose not okay so you could have at least said well as far as having drugs in my purse a month ago no I would have to give you that one Dr Phil but my
Kids don’t get dressed out of a dirty laundry basket I don’t have ail room did you go in and spread cat around the room before we videotaped it no I did not then you got a dirty room oh that was the that was a clean day
Though my whole life my whole my whole life is in one room sorry it’s you the second largest room in the house do you really want to heal this relationship I don’t care about it anymore she doesn’t care about me she wants to be dead I don’t care I
Just don’t freaking care anymore care for she doesn’t care about me she doesn’t love me she she want to make sure that I know that she’s better than me no yesan I don’t want sit here your boyfriend doesn’t love you I know your boyfriend doesn’t want you anymore he
Doesn’t want anything to do with you my credit is better than yours I’m trying to teach you I don’t know how much better role model I can be yeah I know you’re perfect you’re great you’re a great role model a single parent all and we all can’t stand to be around you we
[Applause] BR just oh no no no Amy has taken approximately $1,800 out of my business over the last year I don’t steal I just take an advance I call it that I either pay the money back in tips or it’s taken out of my check it’s just that I don’t make a whole lot
Of money and I need to get through till my next paycheck on several occasions she’s taken every last dime out of the register and my employees will come to work and they’ll say Doby there’s no money how would you want us to operate today I’m interested in why you believe
You are entitled to go into your mother’s business and just take cash I’m not then why did you do it because she made me mad Okay so you decide she said something you don’t like so you are entitled to take her money yeah and go do whatever with it okay and then you
Say I don’t know why she doesn’t respect me you steal from her that is not okay okay is is it no you understand if you work for somebody else they would call the police yep and and you would be in jail so you’re not entitled to it you’ve
Got to stop that kind of behavior you’re living in her house for free yep I’m playing her game and it’s wrong you you’re living in her house for free you’re working for her basically but for her you would be in a real tough spot financially and roofwise for your kids correct
Yep okay and you hate that yep so why does hearing that upset you so much that you can barely breathe because she put me in this position I’m just oh no no I’m done Amy don’t like nope if you’re going to leave you got to go this way okay good yeah if
You’re going to leave you got to go that way all right there you go how do you that okay look obviously this isn’t working right and what she’s interested in is being away from you but she can’t she can’t get away from you right because she’s living in your house
You’re paying her salary you’re paying a whole lot of other as well so basically you’ve got your financial hooks in her so she can’t get away from you she feels like she’s being controlled I’m not controlling her well no you are controlling her whether it’s your intention or not you’re controlling
Her because you pay you pay her you house her all of that and you say you do it because of the grandchildren you said but for them she could just go do whatever she wanted to do first thing you got to do is get her out of your
House get her out of your house get her out of your house oh well do whatever you have to do give her give her a rent stien for a period of time get her out of your house help her find another job this being inextricably intertwined in each other’s lives is not
Working it isn’t working you’re in each other’s way she resents you for what you do for her you resent her for taking what you give her and then you criticize for not doing things the way you would do them she needs to live on her own and
You need to find something that girl is doing that you can reinforce that you can praise that you can say something nice about and I because I got the sneak and suspicion that you are like fingernails on a chalkboard when it comes to criticism yeah yeah but you’ve got to
Start getting some separateness here and you’ve got to find her doing some things right and you’ve got to let her know that you believe in her I do and I praise it doesn’t help that you know it what helps is if she knows it and re and listen perception is reality and her
Perception is you are not proud of her you are not accepting of her you are not happy with her you don’t there’s nothing about her that you think is okay when you’re dealing with your kid right it takes a thousand attaboys to erase one you’re not good enough okay okay
Okay and you two are going to need some help redefining this and I will get you that help I will get you somebody that will sit down with the two of you and help you negotiate a a new relationship yeah the issue here is she’s not proud of where
She is in her life right now and she doesn’t need you to rub salt in that wound but boy you are quick to do it now I want to talk to this other mother that was and I want you to listen to everything I’m going to say to her okay everything
I’m going to say to her will fit in your ear just perfect uh so coming up I’m going to talk to the other mom we met at the top of the show she says she’s scared to death of her 28- yearold son and when we got parents and children
Fighting getting in each other’s face physically something’s gone way wrong that that’s not the design that’s not my idea of the phenomenal family we’ll be right back My son is very scary and intimidating he gets in my face and he talks down to me she chooses to push my buttons and she expects me to calm down because she’s the [Applause] Mom okay we’re back uh I had been talking with Amy and Debbie and then Amy decided she wanted to leave and by the way uh maybe she’s upstairs U and I’m happy to talk to her if she’s got questions but I don’t chase people and I’m not going to reward that behavior by
Chasing her so we are moving on now Joanne says that she truly believes that her son Jonathan needs mental help her words not mine because of how abusive she says he is towards her take a look my son is very scary and intimidating he reprimands me when he speaks to me I do
Get loud with her when she yells and screams at me I don’t sit back and take it I yell and scream right back at her he gets in my face and he talks down to me I was a correction officer and she’s afraid that I’m going to go off the
Handle and beat her like I would beat an inmate he’s Mom Mom Mom and he jumps up and down and he sometimes he starts crying because he’s like so enraged she makes me look like the bad guy that she’s in fear of me cuz I’m 6’1 you know
And she’s only 5’4 the saliva in my face the mouth all like curled up and foam coming out of his mouth literally let me tell you that little 5ot nothing woman that she is has put me up against the wall plenty of times she’s the one to be
Fierce one time Jonathan got so outraged he put his hands around my husband’s neck and was just choking him she chooses to push my buttons and she expects me to calm down because she’s the mom I’m afraid he’s going to hurt himself or my grandson I don’t know what
Else to do anymore I’m beside myself I can’t stamp around so what do you think about that tape as you watch it I I I never say anything to him I don’t even get a chance to speak to him because he’s he’s just outraged
At me all the time how do you feel about your mother I love my mom a lot uh are you are you unkind to her I’m not to start with no I uh when she starts on her tangents about things I’ve got got loud and I I’ve yelled and
Screamed yeah of course of course what do you mean of course well because she she yells and screams at me so I’ll ywn scream back at her that’s not true Jonathan I never get a chance to say anything to you the other day I called I
Called you up before the party and I said to you Jonathan please don’t tell don’t tell anybody that Heather is pregnant why Jonathan excuse me top it wasn’t the time or the place to say anything especially when you were sitting down stop talking over me we were sitting
Down two and a half months ago with a different girl at the table for dinner it wasn’t Heather it was a different girl September 15th you went off to Tennessee with another girl mom I did not go off to Tennessee with you want another girl Jonathan yes you did
Jonathan so is your issue with me my love life or is your issue with me my anger issues it’s everything Jonathan everything well who whoa whoa what wait or is it my whole life all together wait wait a minute is this really and and I maybe I don’t know maybe I’m
Confused did you come here because he had one girl at his place one night and somebody else at his is that really what you want to spend your time with me talking about no I’m scared I’m scared the death of my son because here’s what I thought we were
Coming for you say and this is a quote from him Jonathan you say that you admit I am defiantly mean and nasty to her I am definitely mean and nasty to her you say I am verbally abusive I scream leave me the alone you say I scream and yell
At the top of my voice I demand that she sit down and listen if she would just shut up and listen I wouldn’t have to yell and scream and and be so intimidating I would say yeah I said that but it wasn’t those context per se
Well what per se context is that well what it is is that she’ll say stuff to to set me off on purpose and she’ll she’ll bring my son involved in things and she she starts one thing and then she starts talking about it she says
What she has to say and then when I go to say something she goes stop disrespecting me I’m your mother don’t talk to me like that okay what what were you just saying here it’s all the time it’s all the he gets up he gets up and he’s like this at your
Face Mom Mom listen to me listen to me listen to me listen to me Mom listen to me is that true listen to me Mom no no no takes off slay the door takes off with it come on Dylan practicly chases his thought at the door is that true is that a fair
Characterization no listen to me scream take son out I don’t want to see the situation absolutely absolutely I have I’ve had anger issues do do you do that no not not where is she getting that what CU that’s an odd thing to make up okay she’s dramatizing it she’s
Making it worse than it is okay she let’s ask Heather let’s leave Heather out of this let’s leave your husband out this between me how did you act how did you act a couple weeks ago Jonathan when I tried to move do you want to bring the
Whole family up here I’m talking about you want to speak about your daughter what she wants to say about things you want to have Jonathan I’m asking is this between me and you or I’m asking you a question about when I was at your house two weeks ago you’re not answering why
Did you miss understand how in the world they have trouble communicating it seems to me I just don’t even know what to start working on but I’ll take a break and figure it out now Joanne says she’s not the only person her son bullies and intimidates we’re going to find out who
She thinks is becoming Jonathan’s next victim be right [Applause] back I don’t know what else to do anymore I’m so scared of what’s going to happen to my grandson and to my son I’m really scared she’s trying to be the parent and she oversteps her bound she needs to step back and realize she’s just a
Grandma well that was Joanne who says she lives in fear that Jonathan’s abuse is also directed at her grandson now has Child Protective Services been involved here yes they have and you were restricted to only supervis visitation for 3 months I had a mental breakdown caused by by issues that she did things
That she did she did yes she drove you yes she drove me over the edge yes she did but she involves herself so far in my life with my son’s mom with my my females in my life with my other family members that I can’t get away from her
Even when I try to push myself away from her I can’t get away from her you do strike me as somebody who um has anger just kind of seething below the the level here yeah because when she starts kind of nagging at you and and
You do nag no I don’t does she nag you at home do I need to answer the question Jonathan well he thinks you nagg him at home and I I think maybe my definition of nagging and your definition of nagging may be two different things but look here’s the
Question do you manage your mother by intimidation no I don’t believe that and I don’t believe you believe it you said and you said it’s the wrong context per se I don’t know what that means I can look it up but you said I am verbally
Abusive I tell her to leave me that alone I do scream and yell at the top of my voice and demand that she sit down and listen and if she would just sit down and listen then I wouldn’t have to be that way absolutely do you do this
With your son no do you do it in front of your son no I try not to I have so your son has seen you do this with her yes so you’re modeling that behavior for him that’s bad right yes and I realized that and I’ve tried to overcome that and
I I have overcome that where I don’t do it as much as I used to okay well I want you to do it none and that’s why I’m talking to about well of course it’s not but and she’s not a perfect mother but you’re not a perfect son so that has a
Certain symmetry to it but the the fact that you’re saying she does these things which triggers me it’s a trigger I don’t want to do these things things and I recognize that I shouldn’t do it but I can tell you Dr Phil what the trigger is when she won’t listen and keeps talking
Over me and I finally just in fact you said it I snap I snap on her because she doesn’t think of the repercussions of her action she pushes my buttons she knows what to say to get me going and she does it on purpose such things as you’re just like
Your father correct absolutely am do I get it absolutely tell me if I run a red light here no you got that to the okay so she knows what your buttons are she pushes those buttons until you snap but then you do and that’s y’all’s pattern
Here MH do you recognize that there are things that you’re doing that might be contributing as triggers to some of his anger because see so but well see here’s the thing when parents say and do things it has an extra gravity besides somebody else saying and doing it you know you
Want your parents to approve of you you want them to be proud of you you want them to accept you you want them to validate you and if they get messages to the contrary it really stings extra bad so if you start taking his inventory then that takes on an extra gravity with
Him and so there might be some better ways to communicate now you can’t tell me that you think y’all’s communication pattern is the best it can be no it’s not and it takes communicate so you have to own your part of that yes and that if
I could arrange for you to learn some new ways to do that you would Embrace that happily because you said you want him back and that would help you do that yes okay I’m done with you for a minute okay what the hell are you thinking there’s no Theory under which
Somebody is stand up stand up see here’s the problem here’s the problem you are a big guy you are an intimidating guy and if you are using that physical power to impose your will on someone as small as she is and you say oh yeah she’s small but boy she can bring Hell
In a hurry I I get that but you have an imposing an imposing nature nature here just me look at the difference look her in the eye now I know you’ve looked at her a lot but no look at her in the eye no look at him in the eye don’t stop
Look at him in the eye I just want you to look at your mom what would it mean to you if you could bring a lot of joy in her life mean a lot to me why tell her why I’m a good dad and you and my father
Taught me how to be that person and I don’t I wish you would just respect me and wish that you would just allow me to be the father of my son tell her what that would mean to you if if that happened if you allowed
Me to make my choices in my life and decisions in my life things I think would be a lot smoother if you just sat back and be grandom to my son instead of trying to be the mother and trying to push me and his his mother out of the picture all
The time that’s the way I feel then a lot of these issues wouldn’t happen and I wouldn’t get so angry I wouldn’t get so mad and how would it feel in here if you knew that she accepted you supported you and was proud of you oh it would feel great but she
Doesn’t then tell her I ask you to give me that I ask you to give me give me your support no matter what decisions I make and what I do even if they are wrong ones that you stand by me and show me guide me the right way but not tell
Me that I’m doing stuff wrong okay y’all sit down for a second now why did I not want you to say anything you wanted me to listen to him I want you to not only listen to him I want you to kind of weigh it sometimes you have to hear what isn’t
Said look it’s not easy to be a single dad it’s not easy and you do make mistakes and you do get frustrated and what I want you to know is that there is no time that it is acceptable for you to be abusive to another person not your son
Not your mother and if you do it because you can because you’re bigger you’re stronger you’re louder then that’s just being a bully and your son doesn’t need a bully he needs a soft place to fall with a father that loves him and guides him your mother needs for
You to conduct yourself in a controlled fashion and if you can’t because she’s pushing buttons whether she intends to or otherwise then you need to take yourself out of the situation a which I’ve tried to it’s Unbecoming to you as a man it’s Unbecoming to you as a father
To impose your will on a woman impose your will on a child that’s Unbecoming to you that’s not that’s that’s that’s not the role of the man in the family you need to be a provider and a protector and a leader and a teacher now I’m not saying that you don’t have
Justifications for irritation that she may not cross a line and and create problems for you I get that I really do but meaning because you have a justification to do it doesn’t mean that you have to do it and I’m I’m calling on you as a man to say I am going to
Resolve that I am going to conduct myself with dignity and respect even if I don’t get it but you need to resolve that you know you know what if I’m going to be a man if I’m going to be a father I I need to require more of myself than what I
Have in the past and if you do have issues with anger um there are ways to handle that and and I will get you help with that but I want you to claim a peace in your life and a peace in your interactions and just not be around people who pull your
Triggers and if if you’re around them and they pull the trigger then then you leave and they soon we’ll learn if I if I don’t do that he stays around and we’re joyful and if I do he goes away you know it’s a it’s a pretty simple
Metric here and and I’m going to give you some skills to to do that with where you can elicit from other people what you really wish you were getting instead of what you are getting there’s a way to do that I there truly is because you’re
A very Charming guy and so you can use that to your advantage handsome too isn’t but pardon me he’s handsome he’s pretty easy on the eyes I mean understand there might be a few girls around as you pointed out to us and we’ll be right [Applause] [Applause] back well I want to thank all of my guests today look family is sometimes mini layered and it’s really complex but it is family and it’s worth that extra effort more information about all of this go to drf.com thanks for being here so [Applause] long
I walked off the stage because I’m not interested in fighting with my mom some of the things that she said how she wants me dead wants me to vanish I can’t forgive her for that from being on the show today I got the motivation to leave
When I get home my bags will be packed I don’t see reconciliation and possibility she needs to take a good look at herself before I’m willing to do that today on Dr Phil is it possible for a woman to violate a man were you negligent he did tell me to
Stop he claims his former girlfriend I kept trying to fight her off I couldn’t get away sexually assaulted him he said you used one arm to pin him down the other one to unzip his pants I didn’t force myself on him Chris is on the phone so you’re okay with her becoming a
Registered sex offender and going to the penitentiary for all the things that I went through yes let’s do it if we’re going to do something here that matters then we got to de deal with truth have a good show everybody here we go if I can help get this family back on
Track are you willing to do that ready free take this is going to be a changing day in your [Applause] life well now I’m going to tell you you may have heard about my guest today but they say they wish you hadn’t heard of them in our first story it’s not every
Day you hear about a man being raped by a woman but Chris claims his ex-girlfriend Jessica raped him and got pregnant in the process take a look a young father claims he was raped by an old girlfriend and he doesn’t think he should have to pay child
Support she climbed into my lap and I said what are you doing she said well you know you want me I said no I don’t Chris claims he was raped by his old girlfriend Jessica Fuller a guy not wanting to have sex with somebody that seems impossible Chris says one night in
The backseat of a friend’s car it happened I kept trying to fight her off fight her off fight her off slammed the hand over the lock I tried to get out I couldn’t get away she got pregnant and had their son Joshua Chris was never a
Part of his son’s life now the state of Michigan wants Chris to start paying child support I’m the victim of a crime why should I I have to pay the perpetrator well Jessica says the sex was consensual and Chris never mentioned rape until he was faced with having to pay child
Support when Chris and I first started dating we were both 14 when it came to contraception we didn’t use anything we were together for about 3 years before I had gotten pregnant he claimed that I got pregnant cuz I raped him Chris never had to fight me off he never had to tell
Me stop in any way neither one of us ever said no it was in a hospital when I told Chris that I was pregnant and he said I can’t believe this and he stormed out of the room and he screamed at his mother in the hallway and said she’s pregnant again and he
Left me there I never asked Chris for child support um I told him that I had to fill out papers for it and he denied that it was even his son I learned that Chris claimed that I raped him through a reporter I was stunned I would never think that
Somebody would ever use something as serious as being raped to try to use it for their own personal gain just so they don’t have to send a check every month okay Jessica is here with me Chris is on the phone listening and I’m going
To be talking with him uh in a bit but we heard his tape piece first your second so I going to talk to you first and then him second because I want to keep everything balanced here do you say you did not rape him because you just
Think the concept of a woman raping a guy is just not credible that that just that just doesn’t happen no absolutely not I know it can happen you know anything is you know definitely possible anybody can be raped I say it didn’t happen because there’s no I did not
Force myself it was 100% you know we both agreed to it 100% you know whether a child came out of it or not you know shouldn’t have any be end on what he has with his son what kind of relationship he has with but you have said some
Things to us and to other media along the way that I’ve put together that with my understanding of the definition of rape and consensual sound very close to you fit getting the definition and I I’m not saying that was your mindset not saying that was your intent
Right but I’m trying to find out what was really going on here now you guys have dated on and off for like three years right yes and I think Chris said that you guys have broken up like 25 times yeah so this has been on again off
Again yes and so you were actually breaking up this night yes I broke up with him early that morning but yet you’re having sex with him we did in the back of the car that night we did have sex that night and you said that you initiated the sex no it it wasn’t
Initiate I to be honest I really don’t remember who initiated what I just remember us making out on a it’s kind of like a like a balcony thing you can go you know up the stairs to look over the water and that’s where it started uhhuh
But that’s not where it ended no that’s not where it ended where did it end it ended in my friend’s car in the backseat of the car yes okay and the first time you had sex it was in the backseat of the car yes in the back seat seat of his
Car yeah have you ever heard that old saying get a room yeah um yeah okay now you you haven’t been charged with any crime here so you’re not facing any criminal um nope responsibility here but you had gotten pregnant earlier that year yes I did and
You had a miscarriage yes sorry for your loss on that I’m sorry that happened to you and this was a couple of months later right it was a month later when I had conceived again okay and your doctor had said that post miscarriage that you would be extremely fertile right right
That there’s high risk here MH okay and you had sex with him you’re in charge of your body he’s in charge of his that’s my view okay now you’re in charge of your body did you want to get pregnant no I did not want did you want to have a
Baby with the boy you broke up with that morning no then why are you having sex with him in the back seat of a car that night with no birth control whatsoever to be honest I don’t know I wasn’t I wasn’t I know is an answer you you you
You had no birth you were taking no birth control no I was not he you were he had no condom no you didn’t even make an effort to control it so this is what I’m trying to get to you get in the back seat with with this guy and you get on
Top of him right MH you said you crawled on top of him yeah yep okay and you knew you had a a medical professional tell you you are extremely fertile you have no birth control whatsoever and you consciously willfully purposefully have sex with this guy yes did you failed to
Take proper care against getting pregnant yeah definitely okay so you were definitely negligent yes okay and so when when you got on top of him was he aware that you were yes highly fertile yes he was and he was there did he ever at any point say stop
He did tell me to stop he did he said whoa hold on a second okay so so he did say stop hold on wait a minute yes and and then you you wound up finishing anyway yep yep cuz he said that wait a minute hold on I I’m I want out of here
I don’t no no this is not a good idea don’t want to do this don’t want to be a dad don’t want to get pregnant not ready for that he reached for the door and he says you reach over and Slamm the lock down no put your hand on the lock and
Said and and so the door didn’t work no that didn’t happen no no he was very much stronger than I was well but you were on top of him yes but he was there was enough room in the vehicle for him to push me off there was
Enough room for him to get away if that were the case he said you used one arm to pin him down the other one to unzip his pants while you were sitting on top wow I sound pretty crafty no that never happened I’m just asking I’m just asking
Because it it seems to me like you were being pretty reckless that night we’ve just we’ve agreed that you were Reckless that you were negligent yes and the question is did you coers which would I definitely to rape I definitely you know made some bad choices that night you know everybody’s
Done it but that night was not I didn’t physically force myself on him I’m I’m not that dominating I’m just I’m not I did not do that if he would have said no get off I want out I would have gotten off and he would have gotten out now you
Said he never brought this up until you filed for child support yes but he says that he in fact contacted the Sheriff’s Office a few weeks afterwards why wasn’t I arrested why wasn’t I ever spoken to I never had anything until a few months ago when I heard about it in an article
When a reporter called me quick poll in the audience if you think it’s possible for a woman to rape a man man raise your hand that’s almost everybody if you think no don’t get it not possible raise your hand that’s a few think no not possible so
Most people think that that it is a at least conceptually a possibility all right we have to take a break and I want to hear what Chris has to say about this we’ll be right back after I told Chris that the state was requiring me to go after her child
Support he called me names like you nasty [ __ ] you [ __ ] he’s not mine you [ __ ] you sck around I’ll just tell everybody that it was statutory rape I won’t have to pay a thing I’m the victim of a crime why should I have to pay the perpetrator I just I never thought that
He would have went that low well that was Jessica talking about her ex-boyfriend Chris’s reaction when she told him that he had to pay child support now Jessica’s here today because she wants people to know that she is not a rapist and so your point is if somebody gets on the internet and
Searches you up bang your name comes up associated with having raped someone correct and so you’re saying I I hate that I I don’t want that to be the case now Chris is on the phone and he does not want to interact with you at this point it’s fine so he’s been listening
To you and you can listen to him but if you will you step to the side here conversationally and let me talk to Chris and if he wants to say something to you that’s up to him uh he can but I told Chris it would just be he and I
Talking Chris are you there yes I’m here have you been listening so far yes I have and what do you agree or disagree with that has been said well I disagree with the fact that she wanted to get pregnant because that was very obvious to everybody it seemed to be except for
Me I mean I had people telling me all the time that that’s all all that she wanted and I kind of looked over it I mean she was the first girlfriend I’d ever had and I put a lot of trust into her even though you know there was a lot
Of Heartache on my part I mean she broke up with me constantly to be with other guys so you know um also I not that it’s a major thing but um I was 15 and she was 16 she was almost 16 when we met mhm um there was never a conversation about
Finishing during what happened to me either so or anything like that I said I didn’t want to I didn’t want to be there I didn’t want to do that and the only coercion there was was her saying you know you want to continue you know you
You know you want to keep going and I didn’t you know I didn’t want to be a dad I did want to get out of the car and there was not enough room to push her off because her back was against the passenger seat that was lean back I
Couldn’t get out okay now at this point so you’re saying that this is Jessica is the first girl that you had sex with yes at 15 years of age yes and you had gotten the two of you had gotten pregnant before was that your child I see that’s the thing I don’t know
Because she also had a sexual relationship with other guys as well in between um her relationship with me uhhuh now is it your understanding that she had sex with you that night in the car and if it was rape that’s not sex that’s rape those are two very different
Things absolutely but for the purposes of this conversation she had this interaction with you that night in the car and then she went somewhere after you yes and had had sexual relations with someone else mere hour just hours later okay do you know that this baby in
Question is yours uh there was a paternity test on okay so it definitely is yours okay so want to clear that up now when you guys got out of the car and you did get out of the car after this correct yes were you asking her to come
Home with you no no not at all we got back into the car uh well our friends came back from the beach because that’s where they were they were down on the beach when this occurred and um in the time in waiting I got out of the car I
Sat on the back of the car with my head in my hands I didn’t speak to anyone they came back we got back in the car they took me home and dropped me off did you feel violated or were you afraid that you had just gotten her
Pregnant because you knew she was high risk at that point no I did feel violated because throughout our relationship we had a a consensual relationship prior to this and you know it seems like as soon as she got the miscarriage is when she got even more aggressive I mean she was always
Aggressive to begin with in our relationship but it seems like this is where she took it to a whole another level MH did you guys ever live together after this incident um yes because um she didn’t have anywhere else to go at the time and my mother took her and I
Hadn’t told anybody at this point what had happened I I just wanted to block it out well isn’t it kind of odd that you would move your rapist into your home well they see that wasn’t my my decision necessarily that was more um my my mother’s because she was living with us
Before this happened um because her family had left her at the hospital when she had that miscarriage so she moved in with us after the fact and she moved out just about a day before this happened and she had nowhere else to go after that and my my mother took her back and
Like I said you know after it happened I didn’t really know how to respond I just I I I I wanted to block it out I wanted to pretend like it never happened did you ever have sexual relations after the night in question no with her you never
Had sex again no Jessica says that you were together for three months um after this happened yeah there was two months two months she was living here with you know because she had nowhere else to go uhhuh so did you get along uh there were there were times where things
Were okay but for the most part no okay is rape too strong a word here um was this something that you have some ownership in no ownership in is rape too strong a word to use here no I don’t think it is because I did in fact tell
Her no I tried to get away from her and I couldn’t get away I mean I had no choice but to give up after fighting it for at least 10 15 minutes I I couldn’t I couldn’t get away well I have to ask the the question that’s on everybody’s
Mind because you’re we’re looking at a picture of you right now you look to be a a very Nic looking cleancut uh young man you look to be very healthy and and strong um I I think people it would beg the question were you not able to overpower her defend her turn away
From her rotate your body to one side do something to avoid this having happened what you see now is a product of a lot of hard work to get myself back into shape because when this happened I really was not a very big guy I was
About 150 lbs if that I wasn’t very strong I never lifted a weight in my life until just only less than two or 3 years ago um I was not a strong guy and after the fact of everything that happened I blew up in weight I gained
About 70 lbs just from sheer depression and and and you know I fed my I basically fed my feelings um I blew up and it’s not until about 2009 that I finally started to lose weight and get control of my health and my own weight
Again and I feel now that I have to go to the gym to maintain some kind of strength I don’t know if it’s something that’s subconscious because of what happened but you know that’s just how I am now do your parents believe that you were raped yes yes absolutely as a
Matter of fact she admitted in our living room in front of my parents that she had said you know that I had said no during this whole thing and that I tried to get away we’ll be right [Applause] [Applause] Back now you understand that rape is a felony right absolutely yes and that that if she is convicted of rape um I mean if someone said okay you know we’re we’re going to start drilling down on this figure out that she raped this young man uh that’s a
Felony uh she could wind up being a registered sex offender and do any number of years um in the State Penitentiary for a felony yes is is that is that your hope and intent here honestly for what happened to me yes okay um so so you’re okay with her
Becoming a registered sex offender and going to the penitentiary for all the things that I went through and the psychological damage that I went through yes I know that there’s other guys that she’s been in relationships with that were very she was very aggressive in um
That I’ve spoken to so I know that I’m not the only one who’s gone through at least the aggressive part of her I just think I caught the extreme okay and what is your son name uh Joshua and how is your relationship with him I’ve never I
Mean I I think I met him one time when he was an infant but I’ve never had any interaction with him but you you understand he is your biological child even though you believe he was a product of rape yes and that’s why it’s been such a difficult thing to cope with you
Know a lot of people say to me how can you not be a part of of of this child’s life but the thing is is that yes he’s an innocent child but I’m also innocent as well okay but we can agree he’s done absolutely nothing wrong oh absolutely
Okay and and if his mother goes to the penitentiary uh and becomes a registered sex offender then what will happen to the child see that’s where I’m that’s where I’m not sure because I know that with everything that happened I’m not a unbiased person with him you know I
Don’t think that it would be fair for him to grow up with a father who who went through what he did and and you know that now he has a product of of this rape this happened in um was this in January of 06 uh this happened the exact date is uh
I don’t really remember the exact date it was it was either the it was towards the very end of 2005 or the very beginning of 2006 okay and you did not level these rape allegations until 09 um well officially yeah in the courtrooms yes that’s when it got out
That way but no I had been talking to people and and everybody knew what happened you know only a few short months after it did happen uhuh and of course her position and I’ll let you respond to this her position is that your allegation of rape coincided with
Her move to get child support from you and that the one defense against liability for child support is that this was nonconsensual and so you didn’t willingly participate in the making of this child that is an absolutely false statement well no that’s not false as to
The law no not to the law no you’re saying it’s false that this that’s why you brought it Forward exactly I mean I I look at it this way you know I’m married to a woman who has two children that are not mine that I’m taking care
Of that they don’t even get child support you know if it was trying to get away from a child why would I get myself involved in a relationship with two children that aren’t mine uhhuh and I understand that you’ve had a legal setback in that the court has denied
Your motion to dismiss her claim for child support yes so a court has deemed that the test of the law was not met and that you owe the child support yes and that is what I’m currently paying right now okay um if she dropped her claim for child support would you drop your
Allegation of rape I don’t I don’t think that I could do that okay I’m not suggesting I’m just asking no do you feel that I’ve given you a fair opportunity to State your side of the case yes all right I’m going to take a break and let you continue
Listening and if I have a question I may come back to you okay uh after the break I’m going to let Jessica respond and we’re going to hear what a witness has to say [Applause] Well some days on the Dr Phil show we talk about really unusual things and it is unusual for a male to claim that he has been raped by a female now I will tell you that if you search the medical and psychological and sociological literature you will find a number of
Experts that will tell you that this is possible possible and you might say well you know how because the man has to be aroused but the truth is that a man can be aroused um involuntarily in some respects in part due to sexual stimuli in part due to um
Adrenaline excitement any number of things so I think the consensus among experts at least physiologically is that this is certainly a possibility uh is it what happened in this case uh that’s what we’re trying to figure out Jessica has a witness who was there the night
Chris says that he was raped now Kim is joining us on the phone Kim what happened that night um well I’m not sure what happened previous in the day um I do know Chris and Jessica were no longer dating um my boyfriend at the time and I had picked
Up Jessica and Chris and we all went to the beach um they had already started making out in the back seat and kind of getting a little into it so as soon as we parked my boyfriend and I had gotten out of the vehicle and walked towards the beach we ended up
Just sitting on a bench well we had seen them in the back of the car and we saw their Silhouettes you know moving in motions and everything um once they had finished they had gotten out but we had walked back to the car um every everything seemed fine we all got back
Into the vehicle um we conversed a little then we kind of split off into our own personal conversations um once we had dropped everybody or dropped Chris off he got upset um I believe Jessica had said they were talking about her staying the night with him so he was upset because she
Didn’t want to stay well my boyfriend had dropped us off to my vehicle Jessica and I drove to her house um which she rented with a the boy that we went to school with um they had ended up starting to make out and get into it so
Therefore they went off into the room and they had um sex offer that night and I believe it wasn’t until a few weeks after that that nothing became an issue until after Chris had found out about that night so you think when he found out that she had sex with someone else
He got offended then yes uhhuh but that’s just conjecture on your part yes did he seem upset when you returned to the car um not until the end of the car ride when she had told him no she didn’t want to stay the night at his house MH all
Right so that’s when he got upset he wasn’t upset when you got back cuz he said he was sitting on the back of the car holding his head in his hands and he was upset um he was sitting on the back of the car but he didn’t seem any out of
Ordinary than just after being exhausted from what he had just done so you just don’t think happened in this circumstance I do believe that it didn’t happen only because I know a few times we had talked Chris into skipping school and they’ve had sex in the back of my
Car at the beach Chris is there anything you’d like to say in response to Kim’s comments well I mean for one the whole um the whole thing where they were talking or she was just mentioning about at the end of the conversation at the end of the car ride
Where I got into an argument with her her I never said anything the entire car ride because of how upset that I was um you know I I had nothing to say to anybody I I was too upset by what happened and everything that she is talking about that she says that she
Thinks happened well from the outside it might have looked that way but I was truly upset because of what had just happened MH and uh did you want her to stay with you that night no absolutely not leading up to the instance in the car is it true
That the two of you you and Jessica were in fact making out kissing hugging all that sort of thing no well Jessica says you guys were making out ahead of time before you got there to the beach and Kim says you were making out before you
Got to the beachs so I just need to be clear are both of them lying in your view yes so Jessica what’s going on here I it is true though I did have sex with another man that night um not proud of it but I did and the reason Chris left
Me was because of that specific reason he was living with me at my house at the time um he had found out I did deny it as much as I could because you know I I was not proud of that night having sex with two men definitely was not proud of
That Chris was my first and only especially when I got pregnant the first time that night was the very first time I ever had sex with anyone else other than CHR are you angry that you’re being accused of this I’m very angry I mean rape is a very serious thing you
Know women and men go through it you know unfortunately you know every day it happens but to be associated with something so disgusting it’s very very sickening when nobody wants to believe you when everybody takes one side and they don’t care what the other side is
And when my children find that when they get older you know it just it’s sicking to think what could happen because of you know him opening his mouth just to for whatever reason you know so what are you guilty of here I’m probably guilty of not being very responsible um definitely guilty of
Letting my emotions and feelings of um him and I get the best of me um definitely guilty of being Reckless thank you um but the one thing I’m definitely not guilty of is raping him do you believe that he believes what he’s saying I do so you believe that he
Believes he was raped yeah so you don’t think he’s just making this up you think he really is hurt by this I do and he really believes he was raped I do I I think he really does feel that he probably got taken advantage of that
Night I really do okay and you agree that you may have initiated you you may have been the aggressor but you don’t think it went anywhere near no what someone would think of as rape no and you agree that you were Reckless yes that you were negligent M that you were
Irresponsible yes not once but twice that night yes okay so there’s a lot of bad decisions made all the way around yeah there was okay well we’re going to talk more about this as the show unfolds and you’re going to hear some things about what you can do to help clean up
This image that you think can stick with you for a long time in job interviews or whatever if somebody does a search on you and then here this pops up okay uh but you have no criminal charges pending at this point all right okay we’re going
To move on uh if you found out your partner was cheating uh what would you do well my next guest did something that made international news an exclusive interview with her Next the jilted mistress is getting revenge in a very big way she’s launched a very public campaign against the president of one of the world’s largest tech firms his exgirlfriend has plastered cities around the country with huge Billboards showing them together in happier Times you might remember my next guest yavan her story made international news take a look from New York to San Francisco one mistress turns a private breakup into public payback yavan Wilkins is the mistress Charles Phillips the head of Oracle Corporation and married Wilkins apparently had these Billboards put up after Phillips
Reconciled with his wife after 8 and 1/2 years I found out that Charles was still married because Charles was president of Oracle it was extremely easy for him to mask his relationship with his wife he would say to me I have to go to Europe for 5
Days I have to go to Asia for 4 days his excuses rolled off his tongue because of the red flags I did hire a private investigator what I found out was that Charles was still living with his wife I just felt sick to my stomach because I wanted everyone to know that I
Had a significant relationship with Charles I put the Billboards up to tell everyone that I was this Man’s partner I didn’t put the Billboards up to tell everyone I was a mistress I loved him and I thought he loved me now yavan says as soon as the Billboards went up her world came
Crashing down when the Billboards went up and the media started attacking backing me calling me a [ __ ] they were calling me a home wrecker it backfired and I felt ashamed I felt that I couldn’t go outside I couldn’t leave my house it was so hard just to walk my dogs every day
It’s been 2 years since the Billboards went up and I am absolutely concerned that if I meet someone whether it’s a business associate or my next boyfriend I’m afraid that the first thing they will do is Google me because it’s what people do these days they Google
Everyone and all that was up there was yavan billboard mistress yavan Charles Phillips’s scorn mistress yavan psycho and I’m none of those things I’m very smart I’m very funny and there’s nothing that says that online well yavan hasn’t spoken to any media in two years since everything
Happened how is it going for you now so for the past two and a half years I’ve moved on I’ve started multiple businesses and um executive produced a documentary that kind of explains the billboard how what led to the billboard Fiasco and I’ve written a memoir so why
Talk about it now I’m ready to tell my story I wasn’t ready when it initially occurred in January of 2010 because I knew that there was no way I can tell this layered complicated story in a 30 second interview with the various media Outlets that were camping outside of my home in
My parents home so why did you put these Billboards up this was my way to say I was significant I was not a mistress I I you didn’t think you were the other woman and you came to California you all bought a house together out here yes for
Like $1 million yes tell me about the the moment when you decided I’m going to buy Billboards in multiple cities and put this up there in like 20 by 60 foot sign I was driving down the highway and I noticed a billboard that his company had put up
For their big annual conference in San Francisco so I just thought if Oracle can put up a billboard I’m going to put up a billboard and then I just let it go and moved on until the Tiger Woods issue happened and I’ve been having unprotected sex with this man for 8 and
1 half years and I realized at that moment that oh my God I’m a mistress I I was a mistress I wasn’t his girlfriend I was a mistress and I it it made me feel sick I’m a very strong woman I’m a very intuitive woman and when things
Don’t feel right or smell right I question it all we got to take a break coming up you Bonnie says she believed she was the only woman in her partner’s life for over eight years we’ll be right Back when the Tiger Woods Scandal happened that’s when it hit me that I was mistress and never in 8 and 1/2 years did I ever feel led or made to feel like I was a mistress I was led to believe that I was his partner that I was
Soulmate well that was yavan talking about her shock in realizing that her partner of 8 years had been cheating on her and in fact was still married now this is the first time yavan speaking out about her story would you put these Billboards up again today absolutely not um
I immediately within hours of the Billboards going up in New York City I felt extremely regretful mostly because of what it was doing to Charles professionally I never in a million years thought that anyone would notice the Billboards because it’s a picture of Charles and a picture of me I mean I we
I drive on the highway every day I’m sure I passed at least 50 Billboards I can’t tell you what Billboards are up on Highway 101 or or the 10 okay you got a guy that’s the head of a 70,000 employee company right and somebody puts a billboard with a
Scandalous backstory up in anywhere on the globe and you didn’t think the media was going to think there’s a story here well honestly he and I were public so I kind of felt that I guess because I didn’t factor in the 70,000 employees I figured that they knew that I was his
Girlfriend so they would they would just say oh Charles and yavan and then they would go to the website and the website I actually created for his 50th birthday that year and it all it was was a website it’s an electronic photo album so there were photos from each year we
Were dating it there was nothing salacious about the website it was extremely benign and when I first came up with the idea to do the Billboards all of my friends were against it they just said Why That’s crazy don’t do it and I said yeah you’re right and once
The Tiger Woods thing happened um I called Clear Channel and said what is what does somebody have to do to put up a billboard so I mean it was not I didn’t give it enough thought so when you asked would I do it again no but you’re kind of transcending all that because
Instead of trying to get smaller uh in the worldwide web and and everybody’s Consciousness you’re seeking to get larger with your Memoir your documentary you just want to get larger with the full story I’m not trying to get larger if no one reads the docu if
No one reads the book no one watches the documentary it’s okay what I want is for my nieces and my nephews and my the rest of my relatives to continue to look up to me and to continue to admire me and not have in the back of your mind or
Back of their minds how did yavan not know that this was going on we know yavan she’s smarter than that all right all right we got to take a break next we’re going to talk about what you can do if you don’t like what people are saying about you on the internet is
There any hope can you clean this stuff up we’re going to meet a man who says yeah actually you can be right [Applause] Back well today I’ve been talking to women who say their reputations have been ruined by news headlines in the internet now Michael fdick is here and he found it reputation.com and says people have the right to control and protect their online reputation and privacy but Michael it takes some effort
It takes some doing right the thing to do is to take control of the definition of what of what the internet thinks is true about you how do you do that first it’s very easy to buy a website for yourself and you might be in your case
Dr phil.com or someone else’s case first name lastname.com and publish a very simple bio of yourself that defines who you are in your eyes and number two do the same thing twitter.com firstname not last name not twitter.com funnygirl Porsche but first name last name why because that shows up high in Google
Last thing I want to be very very specific about is that social media privacy settings don’t work and I want to make sure that people understand that there whatever they publish or it’s published about them can and will leak out there on the world okay thank you so
Much for talking about that and those three points you had we’re going to put on the internet as well but that’s a good good idea to get a perfect match tag on a website that comes up so people at least get your side of whatever is
Going on out there uh I hope you join our Facebook page and share your opinions also continue to let me know what you think on the message boards we do look at that and a lot of our guests come from the message boards because we
Do follow up and we get on there and see that you felt strongly about it one way or the other or you thought I was a complete [ __ ] or whatever uh then we bring you here so you can tell me my face thanks for being here so [Applause] long
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